沒有PR沒有背景的留學生如何快速進入澳洲投行？

來自專欄澳洲情報5 人贊了文章

在世界頂級投行高盛、德意志銀行工作，

在大多數人眼裡

這位華人小哥Richard

是個毫無疑問的人生贏家。

可到底是什麼最初讓他與投行結緣？

只因電腦遊戲打得好！

答案出乎所有人意料！

在德銀的十多年來

他負責指導的多名畢業生

都已經成為澳洲各大頂級投行的重要高管！

現在，他來到了DNC悉尼

DNC精英薈 Meet a Mentor第一季

沒有PR沒有背景的留學生如何快速進入投行？

Richard為我們揭秘投行里的一切秘密～

Interview Topic

<Guide for International students to get into Investment Banks>

Guest: Richard

MC: Louis

導師簡介:

- Head of equity and trading (Deutsche Bank Australia 2013 -2018)

- Equity management committee (Deutsche Bank Australia 2013 -2018)

- Head of cash equity trading (Deutsche Bank Australia 2008 -2013)

- Member of graduate recruitment committee (Deutsche Bank Australia 2008 -2018)

- Head of Portfolio Trading (Deutsche Bank Australia 2005 -2008)

- Facilitation Trader, REITS market maker (Goldman Sachs 2000 to 2005)

- Graduate Equity Trader (Goldman Sachs JBWere 1999 to 2000)

Introduction:

Louis

Hi Richard. I』m so excited to have you here! I』ve known you for a while and this is the first time interviewing you here, so thanks! And welcome!

Richard今天請到您真是太高興了. 雖然認識您一段時間了, 但還是第一次採訪您. 歡迎!

Richard

Thanks for having me!

多謝邀請啦!

Louis:

My pleasure!

You know a lot of students, especially international students who are wanting to kick off their careers in the investment banking sector struggles to get a job or even an internship.

其實有很多學生, 特別是想在投行發展的留學生對於找實習或正式工作都很頭疼.

I know you are an expert in this area, and your advice would definitely help those who are listening!

我知道您在這方面是個專家, 您給的建議肯定能給正在聆聽的觀眾們莫大的幫助!

So actually, we』ve gathered some of the most wanted ask question from International students.

所以呢, 今天我們準備了一些留學生最想問的問題.

And I』d love to take this time to talk about your early career and how you discovered your calling

我想藉此機會談談你早期的職業生涯以及你是如何發現自己的職業噠.

Question 1

So, let』s go back to when you were college age, did you wanted to get in Investment banks specifically? And how did you get in? (0:44)

讓我們回到您還在大學的時候, 當時您明確自己想進投行嗎?還有您是怎麼進的呢?

Answer

Look I mean, Investment banking right everyone loves it, because of the money, everyone loves it because of the pressure, you know, fast cars a lot of money, who wouldnt right? Yup, I loved investment banking, I think I originally got in because I was good at playing computer games. One of the finance lectures required an assignment to be done and the project was to market make for an unknown security without information flow and to see how long you can last basically, with a set amount of money. So, my roommate at the time, was enrolled in finance and I was a marketing graduate and he said 『You know, since you love computer game so much, would you mind playing a computer game for me? 『So, I tried it, you know what? I topped the score! So, he said, why don』t you try finance? You must be very good at it. And I thought, ok well, I』ll give it a try. It all started from the computer game.

投資銀行對吧, 每個人都喜歡因為在那兒能日進斗金, 因為(那兒有使你成長的)壓力, 跑車和財富誰不愛呢? 我很熱愛投行, 但我想我進入這行的原因是因為我電腦遊戲玩得好.當時我的一門金融課發布了個assignment, 需要在沒有信息流以及只有一定資金的情況下給一個未知證券創造市場,最後看你能維持多久. 當時我的室友是個金融生而我是學市場的, 他說 「既然你遊戲玩這麼好, 不如你幫我玩一下?」然後我就試了試, 沒想到我居然得了第一! 他就說 「你為啥不試試金融呢」, 我就想「那好吧, 我就試一試」. 所以一切都是從電腦遊戲開始的.

(沒想到導師竟然是通過這樣的方式與投行結緣呀! 看來就算學的不是金融, 要是分析能力強的話投行也不是夢啦!)

Question 2:

What』s the day like in an investment bank? And what is the career path like for an early graduate? (2:05)

在投行工作是怎樣的體驗呢? 在投行畢業生的職業道路又會是如何呢?

I started my graduate career at JB wear which later become Goldman Sachs in Australia, um, I mean, the graduate program back then you know it』s very different to the graduate program now because the Goldman Sachs graduate program back then was you know you start the day with/by getting coffee for your mentor and getting breakfast for the whole desk, and then you are in charge of a piece of white board, and because back then there is no LED TVs weren』t around and you basically have to write down client flow so what client are interested buying what clients are interested in selling, what announcement are out today, what we are expecting the earning season to bring to us, and what are some of the major flows overnight from the offshore desks.

So, I mean a lot of that has changed, nowadays, for example the Deutsch graduate program you spend the first 3 months in Australia and then you spend the next month and a half in the UK with rest of the globe graduates. So, you all stay in a service apartment you attend lectures and then you will be assessed at the end of it, in term of academic performance and all that. So that』s quite different.

我是在澳洲的高盛開啟我職業生涯的. 當時的管培生項目與現在的大有不同. 以前在高盛你開始一天的方式通常是幫你的導師買咖啡或是幫一整桌的人買早餐, 然後呢你就會負責一整塊的白板因為當時根本沒有LED電視,基本上你就得寫下所有客戶信息比如他們感興趣買賣的產品, 當天最新的公告, 旺季的預期收入, 前夜海外機構下的大宗股金單. 但現在已經改變很多了. 舉個例子現在德意志銀行的管培生項目呢, 前三個月你會在澳洲工作接下來的一個半月你將在英國與世界各地的畢業生一起. 住在公寓里, 一起上課, 最後公司會根據你們的成績等方面對你們進行評估. 所以還蠻不同的.

Q:在投行畢業生的職業道路又會是如何呢?

In terms of career path, it really depends on which division you end up in, in investment bank you have the front office, middle office and the back office. You have client facing staff, product facing staff. For example, I am very much a product facing person, I run trading at Deutsch bank and for that at Goldman Sachs, so you know, I face products more than clients, but thats not to say that I don』t talk to clients at all. I do speak to a lot of high profile clients at the same time, but I』d say 80% of my time is spent dealing with products and trading and PNLs.

職業道路方面呢, 這取決於你最後就職與哪個部門. 投行有前台中台以及後台, 有面向客戶的員工也有面相產品的員工. 舉個例子, 我是一個十足的面向產品的人, 我在德意志和高盛都主要負責產品交易. 但這不表示我完全不跟客戶打交道. 我同時也與很多高凈值客戶有來往, 但我80%的時間都是花在trading還有PNL的.

寄語: 進入投行之前了解自己適合哪個職位或部門將決定以後的職業道路, 所以必須做好調查深度了解行業信息哦!

Question 3:

What』s the chance of an international student to get into the front office? and what kind of preparations do they need to do? (need re-record question) (4:22)

對於留學生來說進入前台的幾率大嗎? 他們需要做怎樣的準備呢?

An international student is a student, your advantage is the fact that you』re bilingual, more importantly as a Chinese international student you have a very solid understanding of Chinese culture which in my view is much more important than the language itself. Because in 10 years time google translate is going to be able to translate everything much quicker than everyone else can, the fact that you understand culturally what things mean in Chinese is much more important than the language itself.

There are certain things that the Chinese education and background can bring to for example a Chinese international student, I think Chinese students by experience myself included are very good at maths. We tend to excel in trading related roles, people might perceive us be less able to take on pressure and risk, I don』t agree with that because I』m Chinese and I was a Chinese international student I don』t have any problem taking pressure nor risk. And a lot of times we are a lot more understanding of difficult scenarios and situations where it requires someone to have a high emotional quota (EQ). I think Chinese students are great at it, you can go out there and diffuse some very difficult and tricky situations.

留學生與所有其他學生都一樣, 而你的優勢是你掌握著兩門語言, 更重要的是, 作為一個中國留學生你對中華文化的理解是根深蒂固的,而這在我看來比你會中文還有用. 因為在十年後谷歌翻譯的速度可能可以快過所有人. 所以我說, 你對於中國文化的理解是比文字的理解更關鍵的.

中華背景與教育可以帶來幾樣優勢, 比如說中國留學生 (包括曾經的我自己)數學都特好. 我們傾向於在貿易/交易相關的工作上表現得更卓越. 有些人會認為我們抗壓與承擔風險能力較弱, 這觀點我不敢苟同, 因為我自己作為曾經的留學生在兩點上沒有一點問題. 而且在很多尷尬,困難需要高情商的場合的時候我們更能體諒與理解別人. 中國留學生在這點上做的很好, 你們能在輕鬆化解很棘手的事情.

Question 4:

What are some personal experience and qualities you are looking for when recruiting for an IBD position? (6:26)

那您個人在篩選IBD職位候選人的時候您最看重那些背景與個人品質呢?

Answer

2 things.

1. Make sure you』re correctly prepared. Attend all the right training, seek out a lot of professional help that can actually get you there, and part of that is of course get your understanding of what investment banks do, get your CV, make sure you have the right interview techniques.

2. Having persistence. You just have to keep on trying,

兩樣:

第一: 我希望學生們在申請工作前做好正確的準備. 如果需要, 參加所有的相關訓練, 去尋找專業的,真正能夠幫你達成目標的幫助. 當然了這包括了解投行如何運作, 寫好簡歷還有確保你擁有正確的面試技巧.

Q: So it seems like as long as youve got enough experience and preparations done before applying for a role at investment banks, no matter whether if you』re local or international they』re all the same right? (7:12)

Q:

看來只要學生們有一些相關經驗,做好了準備的話, 不管他們是留學生還是當地學生在面試官眼裡他們都是一樣的對嗎?

I mean for a graduate position, the expectation of you to have experience is quite limited. No one is going to expect you to walk into the front office to be able to price options and to be able to manage a $100 million-dollar risk book. That』s probably your second year onwards, but to be able to compete against your peers, having the base knowledge of what an investment bank actually does is actually quite important. You don』t want to walk into an interview situation and be asked a question 「so which area do you like more? research sales or sales trading?」 and you look at the interviewer completely blank.

I found that a lot of students are having that problem when they come to an interview and having a mind blank when throw at a question like that.

That is something you can gain by talking to someone who』s worked in the area before or seek professional training. I mean let』s face it, that is probably the most important part of the interview 「which area you want to have your career in?」 and having no idea of what that question actually meant is pretty silly.

管培生的職位而言, 我們不期望你們有很多工作經驗. 沒人會要求你在踏進前台的第一天就開始給期權(options)定價管理一億刀的risk book. 這都是你第二年往後的職責了, 但你想從同期生中脫穎而出的話, 了解投行的基本運作知識是必不可少的. 你不會想走進面試時被問到類似 「所以你比較喜歡投行的那個部門? Research & sales 還是sales & trading?」的這種問題, 然後腦袋一空呆若木雞.

不過這些都是你可以通過諮詢在投行工作過的人, 或專業培訓所提升的. 我的意思是, 「你最希望在哪個部門就業?」 大概是整個面試過程中最重要的問題了, 當你連這問題該怎麼回答都不知道時會顯得你很愚蠢.

Question 5:

How many graduates do you recruit every year? And can you share with us, some of the tips when applying for investment banks? (8:54)

每年你們都招募多少管培生呢? 您能分享一些申請投行的技巧嗎?

Answer

Look, from a top tier investment bank you』re looking at, anywhere between 10-20 graduate or intern positions each year, that covers every area within the front to end office, excluding IT. You』d obviously seek out students from different disciplines. Investment banks used to purely source their graduates from a commerce or economics background, that has really changed in the last 10 years. Some of my most profitable and best graduates has been engineers, and one of them actually carried a robotic arm into his final round interview to impress me.

頂級的投行每年都會招募大約10-20個管培生或實習生, 這包括了所有前台到後台的職位, 除開IT. 當然了, 我們會尋找來自不同專業的學生. 投行過去只招商科或經濟背景的學生, 這在過去的十年改變了很多. 我帶的一些最賺錢的學生都是工程師, 其中一個人還帶了一隻機械手臂到最後一輪面試來打動我.

Q:Well, that seems quite irrelevant to finance?

Look, on the surface yes, but in reality, what you don』t want is to recruit a group of people who thinks exactly the same, was taught by the same teacher and makes same sort of decisions for same scenarios, that becomes a nightmare for risk management and for personnel management as well.

在表面上看是的, 但事實是, 我們不想招一群被同一個老師教出來的, 思想相同並且只會相同類型決策的學生, 這將成為風險管理企業和人事部門的噩夢

The robotic arm example you talked about, that really made the engineering student stand out. Can you share with us some of the interview tips to make students stand out?

那位帶了機械手臂的學生一下子讓自己與他人區分開來了. 您能分享一些能讓大家脫穎而出的面試技巧嗎?

Sure, interview techniques, think one of the most important thing is be prepared, you have to do your homework. You have to understand which bank you』re interviewing with and what their background is and what the role is that you』re interviewing for. One of the silliest mistakes I have ever experienced being on the graduate recruitment committee for nearly 10 years was this graduate that we really really liked, when we asked him so what』s your top choice of employer that graduate kept repeating other banks not the bank she is interviewing with. So much so that she appeared so good on paper that I asked my fellow interviewer whether or not we can give her a break and give her another chance, we did that, but she came back with an exact same answer.

She was really nervous, she probably just repeated whatever she wrote down and recited and memorized. That』s unfortunate but, it』s things like that, so be confident, be prepared, and don』t lie tell the truth, no one is going to want 10 years of trading experience from a graduate, so its ok, so if you dont run your hedge fund at the age of 22.

沒問題, 我認為最重要的面試技巧之一就是做好準備, 你必須做好功課. 必須了解你面試公司的背景還有你面試的職位的內容. 我在管培生委員會近10年以來遇到過最愚蠢的例子, 是一個我們非常非常喜歡的畢業生. 當我們問她 「你的首選僱主是哪些?」 的時候, 她居然一直重複著其他銀行的名字而不是我們的 (德意志). 因為她書面信息看上去很完美, 我和同事決定再給她一次機會, 但她還是帶著同樣的回答回來.

她真的非常緊張, 大概當時她只是在重複事先記住的答案了吧. 諸如此類的事兒的確很不幸, 所以自信點兒, 準備好還有別撒謊, 說真話哦! 沒人會要求一個畢業生有10年的投行交易經驗, 所以當你22歲的時候沒管理過hedge fund也沒事兒啦!

寄語: 導師在採訪中多次強調了解投行內部各個崗位和職責對於學生在應聘時候的重要性, 提前做好就業與面試的準備正是能讓你從人群里立刻區別開來的最好技巧!

Question 6:

(so I have heard) There has been some misunderstanding or misconception about females being really suitable for a particular role in the investment bank, is that true? (12:30)

這段時間我聽到了一些誤解, 說是女性特別適合投行的某些崗位這是真的嗎?

Answer

I think that』s definitely not true, I think any roles within an investment bank is personality driven or experience driven rather than gender driven, I dont think female or male for that matter is better at certain roles than the other, I mean, it cannot differentiate base on gender, but rather you can base on personality for example: if you』re good at managing relationships or great attentional to detail and you can always diffuse very difficult situations you』ll be perfect for research sales, which basically sells investment bank research, research analyst, meetings to buy side clients and you manage the clients relationship at a portfolio manager level. if you are like me who loves to stay up all hours of the night and loves pressure, numbers and loves dealing with challenging situations then trading is a right area for you.

Yeah, it』s really personality driven. I』ve met a lot of high ranking female traders and well renowned research sales people who actually became heads of equities in top tier investment banks that are female or males, so it』s not really a question about gender at the end of the day. It』s all about your personality, and how you can best find a role that suites your personality and how well you apply yourself to that role.

我認為這絕對是錯的, 我覺得任職於任何投行的崗位都取決於個人的性格或經驗這跟性別無關. 我不認為女性或男性在某些崗位更加勝任, 我們不能用性別來區分但可以通過性格來辨別. 例如, 如果你對於管理人際關係擅長,對細節很注重或者擅於化解危機那你就很適合research & sales的崗位. 這職位的主要內容就是買賣投行調研,與買方客戶的溝通還有在portfolio manager的層面管理客戶關係. 如果你像我一樣喜歡做夜貓子,喜歡壓力, 數字和具有挑戰性的情況那麼trading就是適合你的崗位.

所以做什麼職位都基於你的性格. 我遇到過很多最後在頂級投行成為heads of equities的高職位女性trader與一些有名的research & sales人物. 所以這問題絕不是關於性別, 而且關於你的性格, 關於你該怎樣找到一個適合你個人品質的職位.

Question 7:

Speaking of that, it seems like not everyone is suitable for a position at investment banks. For those students who are studying finance what would be their career options if they don』t get in?

說到這, 看來不是所有人都適合在投行的前台工作. 那對於那些還在學習金融的學生來說, 如果進不去投行他們未來的職業發展會是如何呢?

Answer

Dont give up I』d say, never really give up, I seldomly ever hire people in graduate position that was their first try, investment banks are now hiring graduate students that are in their mid to late twenties even, that gives you at least 2-3years of time to gather experiences from other places. My best grad came from EY who was in auditing he always wanted to go into a trading role in an investment bank, but he couldn』t get in for the first 3 years, so he kept trying but except for the position at EY and I』ve eventually hired him.

我會告訴他們, 別放棄, 永不放棄. 我很少會招到第一次應聘就成功進入投行的學生. 投行現在會招年齡在25-30歲的畢業生, 這給你大概2-3年的準備時間來積攢經驗. 我最優秀的畢業生來自於EY的審計崗位, 他一直很想進投行但是他前三年一直沒進, 但他一直在嘗試, 我最後也要了他.

Ending question

Well the clock is ticking, and we are running out of time. If you can only give one advice to future applicants, what would that be? (re-record)

太遺憾了, 時間快到了. 我必須在最後問你一個最重要的問題. 如果你只能給聽眾們一個建議的話你會說?

Answer

I think the most important thing is, take your chance, persistence, and continue to improve yourself, if you really like investment banking, try It, apply for it, don』t be turned off just because you got rejected. Keep on trying, continue to improve yourself, because you need to compete against a lot of other students for exactly the same role, if you improve yourself by attending professional training by getting better understanding through reputable training firms such as DNC consulting you will dramatically improve your performance and chances. Lastly, never give up. Just because the competition was fierce this time round, it doesnt reflect poorly on you, just because you didnt get in this year.

我覺得最重要的就是: 把握好手中的機會, 堅持還有繼續提升你自己. 如果你真的很喜歡投行, 那就去嘗試把! 去申請, 別因為被拒絕了一兩次就氣餒. 堅持下去, 繼續提升你自己, 因為你在與很多其他學生都在競爭著同一個職位, 但如果你通過像DNC這樣有聲望的機構參加專業培訓的話, 你將大幅度地提升你自己的表現與應聘成功率.最後的最後, 永不放棄! 僅僅因為這次的競爭強大不代表你自己不行!

Ending

Louis:

Well, thanks so much Richard for being here today! It has been so fruitful talking to you and I』m sure our students will receive much insights from your advice!

好的, 謝謝Richard導師! 今天與您的交談實在收穫頗豐, 我相信聽眾學生們也能從你的建議中收穫到不少的!

Richard

Thank you, have a nice day

謝謝,安~

Louis

You too

安~

（圖左一 DNC Marketing Director Sophia M, 中 Richard B, 右 DNC CEO Sonia S）

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