職業經理人顧問 - 大咖們背後的堅實後盾 What its like to be an executive coach?

成功人士的葵花寶典何處尋覓？大咖們披荊斬棘的勇氣從何而來？

來自於他們的智慧、他們的夢想、他們的勤奮、他們家人的支持，還常常來自於聚光燈背後默默無聞的他們的良師益友 - 職業經理人顧問！

來聽Jarfa Wabs漫談經理人顧問的故事！

謝謝收看！請給我們留言分享你的想法或繼續提問！

本集全集中英翻譯稿如下

She is an executive coach at BetterUp

她是BetterUp的一個經理人顧問

BetterUp is a program that helps people to grow their strength and resolve challenges

BetterUp是一個幫助人們成長和解決疑惑的平台

through a personalized coaching program

通過一個為個人定製的培訓項目

I got to know Jarfa through that program and she has been a huge help to me

我從那個項目認識了Jarfa。她幫了我許多。

Today I invited her to join our show to talk about what its like to be an executive coach

今天我請她來加入我們的節目，分享經理人顧問的經歷

Welcome Jarfa!

歡迎你， Jarfa！

Thank You, Yuji! Thanks for having me!

謝謝Yuji！謝謝邀請我！

We are so glad to have you

我們很高興能邀請你

Why did you decide to be an executive coach? 為什麼想做經理人顧問？

For me, its kind of been a natural journey, natural choice

對於我來說，這是一個挺自然的選擇

Im a marriage and family therapist by trade

我是一個職業婚姻家庭心理顧問

Oh so you are also a therapist

所以你也是一個心理顧問

I am. I am a marriage and family therapist licensed by the state of California

我是的，我是加州註冊許可的婚姻家庭心理顧問

so it was kind of a natural choice for me to to combine the two worlds in my past life

把我過去的兩個世界結合起來是一個自然的選擇

In my past career, I was a in the corporate world for about 18 years

我曾經在企業工作了18年

doing anything from commercial lending to human resources, to portfolio management, sales, sales training

從事了各種，從商業借貸到人事管理，到資產管理，到銷售，到銷售員培訓

and my education formerly has always been in psychology

同時我過去的教育背景都是心理學

its been kind of a nice marriage between the two worlds of corporate banking and finance and therapy

把企業、銀行、金融與心理諮詢結合起來是一個不錯的事情

and being able to sit with clients which I love

能和客戶坐下來（交談），這點我很喜歡

That was my favorite part of being in business anyways - is to sit down with clients and talk

我對商業事務最喜歡的一部分，就是和客戶交談

So its been great

所以這很棒

Whats your week like being an executive coach? 經理人顧問的生活是什麼樣的？

Hottest job, huh?

最火熱的工作啊？

I think its definitely gaining some popularity

我認為這正在變得越來越流行

If you look at the 1980s and the 90s up until now

如果你從1980和90年代看到現在

its definitely gained a lot of momentum and a lot of popularity

經理人培訓已經變得流行多了

I just read myself too that Stanfords doing a huge research on this

我最近讀到斯坦福大學正在對這方面做研究

in terms of the need for executive coaching

關於經理人培訓的需求

and CEOs really wanting this for their companies and organizations

CEO們真的很需要這個資源給他們的公司與組織

which is great because I think people are now seeing the value of investing into the people

這非常好，因為我認為人們正在意識到投資於人的價值

before was so much of a luxury item

過去這更多地被視為一種奢侈品

it was very few seldom places that you would see it

你只能在很少的地方看到

For me, again, the flexibility being huge

對於我來說，靈活性很重要

During the week when Im home with the kids more, I do the executive coaching

當我周中在家和孩子們在一起的時候，我通常會做經理人顧問的工作

because its nice; I can do it from home - Facetime, Skype

因為我可以在家通過視頻Facetime，Skype工作

Just like what are were doing right now

就像我們現在這樣

Yeah yeah

是的

It allows me to do that, which is super nice - I can spend time with the kids

這個工作允許我這麼做，能和孩子們多在一起，對我來說非常好

and then I tend to kind of do the marriage and family therapy on the weekends or I do it in the afternoons

我周末或下午的時候會做婚姻家庭顧問

What do you do with your clients?

你和客戶一起做些什麼？

I think for me its always been kind of a journey I take with clients

對我來說，這一直是我和客戶（一起探尋）的歷程

getting to know them

認識了解他們

having genuine curiosity and asking them

tons of questions

以真誠的好奇心，詢問他們很多問題

My goal is to kind of get to know them on a level where we can strategize together

我的目標是了解他們到一個我可以和他們一起共同策劃的層次

not necessarily making decisions for them

並不一定為他們做決定

but helping them realize what they want and their preferences and their values

但是幫助他們認識到他們想要什麼，他們的偏好和他們的價值

and really teaching those skills to be able to craft their own stories

教會他們如何編輯他們的故事

and making room for things that maybe they didnt see

幫助他們看到他們沒有看到的東西

perspectives that they havent seen before

他們沒有看到的觀點

For me, its always about broadening the context

對於我來說，這總是關於讓視野變得更寬廣

Its not just one little area that theyre looking at, but looking at the big picture

他們應該看到大的藍圖，而不是只看到小的一塊

Do you mind giving us a few examples - what kind of situation you have worked with your clients before?

你能分享幾個例子嗎？你和客戶一起討論解決過什麼情形？

Oh geez... What havent I worked with?

哦，天哪。。。什麼是我沒有探討過的？

All kinds of issues

所有的事情

Do they talk about family issue with you as well?

他們和你討論家庭問題嗎？

Oh yeah

是啊

So its not only about career; its like more broader context

所以你們不只探討工作事業，而是探討更寬的範圍

We are whole people

我們是整體的人

You know, you dont come to work which is part of yourself, right?

你知道，你不是只有你的一部分來上班，對吧？

You come to work with all of yourself

你是你的整體來上班

and youre treating the whole situation and looking at the whole situation and the whole person

你是以一個整體的你在對待整個情形

and of course, theres personal things that come up

當然，個人的事情自然會冒出來

family, spouses, boyfriends, girlfriends, disagreements and things like that

家庭，配偶，男朋友，女朋友，爭議等等

For me, good work would be really

authenticating the person

對我來說，好的工作就是讓客戶做真正的自己

and making sure theyre being genuine to who they want to be

保證他們保持真我，成為自己想成為的人

and how theyre living and the choices that

theyre making

過他們想過的生活，做他們想做的選擇

whether its professionally or

personally

不管是工作上還是生活上

So we tend to see a lot of like difficult conversations happening at work

我們經常會碰到工作上的困難的交涉

We see a lot of management leadership type situations, public speaking

我們也會處理管理領導方面的問題，或是公開演講的處境

but more interpersonal stuff too

還有一些很私人的東西

in career planning, retirement

比如事業規劃，退休規劃

Wow, all kinds of stuff really

哇，真是什麼都有

All kinds of fun stuff... Its all fun! Its all great!

什麼都有。。。很有趣！都很棒！

How long do you usually work with your clients?

你和客戶一般一起工作多久？

Its been all over the place I think

什麼情況都有

Theres client that Ive had for years actually through BetterUp

有的客戶我已經通過BetterUp一起工作好幾年

Its an ongoing with some of the organizations

是一些公司組織長期的安排

They sign up for a long duration

他們會註冊較長時間

Could be anywhere from five or six sessions to years

可能從5-6次到幾年

We usually meet once a week or once every other week depending on the situation

我們一般看情況一周或兩周見一次

but I like to work everyone once a week because it keeps us engaged more

但我比較喜歡一周見一次，這樣能讓我們更熟悉對方

How many clients can you work with in a given week?

你一周能和幾個客戶工作？

Oh that varies too

這也看情況

I mean, anywhere from like 10 to 20 I would say

可能是10到20個

Its a good number

有好一些

10 to 20 - Thats a lot

10到20個，這很多啊

Do you take weekends? Do you take time

off?

你周末休息嗎？

No...

不休息。。。

Oh my god so you are devoting all of your time to help people

天哪，所以你所有的時間都在幫助客戶

You know what - because its from home and its flexible it doesnt feel you know

其實我不覺得累，因為我一直在家上班，也很靈活

We dont have commute time

我不需要花時間在交通上

We dont have that stress of like getting to

an office and so it doesnt feel that way

我沒有要去辦公室的壓力，所以不覺得很疲憊

Whats required to be a good executive coach? 好的經理人顧問需要具備哪些條件？

With coaching, you dont really need (license)

作為經理人顧問，我不需要正式許可證

Its not a state license type of thing

它不是一個需要州立許可的東西

You get certified and theres certain different types of certifications depending on what youre doing

但是你可以有很多不同專業的職稱認證

But I think really its just about knowing your commitment level to the clients

但最重要的還是要對你的客戶有承諾

and knowing in the industry

了解他們的行業

For example, I work a lot with the financial industry because thats my background

比如，由於我的背景，我有很多金融行業的客戶

you know finance, lending industries

金融、借貸

and having that commitment to those industries and putting yourself in the shoes of the clients

對那個行業有了解並能讓自己從客戶的角度著想

knowing what kind of challenges they might have during the day, during the

week

知道他們每天每周可能有什麼樣的挑戰

what kind of obstacles that youre going to be helping them with

有什麼樣的困難是你可以幫助的

Having that background knowledge really helps

有這方面的背景真的會很有用

but the other thing, again, it would be like that genuine curiosity that I mentioned

還有就是我之前說道的真誠的好奇心

It is making sure youre asking questions that are going to help this person

保證你問正確的問題來幫助這個人

be able to deal with these challenges themselves

可以達到幫他們客服挑戰的目的

and to build those skills

（幫助）獲得一些技能

Its not just like we throw a whole bunch of skills at the client

我們並不是扔給客戶很多硬性的技能

Understanding that as a coach is really important

了解這一點對作為經理人顧問至關重要

that its not a cookie cutter thing

這並不是一個像切餅乾一樣標準化的事情

You cant apply the same concept to every client

你不能對每一個客戶用同樣的方法

and that youre allowing room for that to kind of craft itself

你必須給他們空間來慢慢建立這些東西

so I dont go in with the set regimen so this is everything that Im going to do with each person

所以我開始的時候不會有固定的教程

Its really customized

而是非常依人而定的

What are the goods and bads about being an executive coach? 做經理人顧問的好處和壞處有哪些？

Lots of goods I would say

很多好處

Again, Im a people person - love to help

我喜歡幫助人

and so I get so much reward from seeing those things happen for people

能幫助別人做到一些事情讓我自己很有成就感

and seeing them overcome obstacles and identifying differently

看到他們克服困難並且有不同的看待事物的方式

So thats hugely rewarding

這對我來說特別有成就感

This is a very private journey for people you know

這是人們一個非常私人的旅程

its just like therapy - its very private

就和心理治療一樣，非常的私人

and for people to open up to you

人們願意向你敞開

its like such an honoring and humbling experience

這是一個多麼不容易的事情，值得好好地尊重並謙遜地對待

I think that the only bad I would say is time wise it takes a long time to build this kind of system

唯一不好的地方就是這個系統需要很長時間建立

People think, you know, this is a great job and you jump in and youre going to have clients kind of at your door

人們認為這是一個很好的職業而且一進入就會有很多客戶蜂擁而至

It doesnt work that way

不是這樣的

Have you ever had any challenging clients? 你有遇到過非常難以合作的客戶嗎？

The word "challenging" to me is a relative term

「有挑戰性的」這個詞對我來說是一個相對性的詞

I dont necessarily see people in that way

我不這樣看待人們

The word "challenging" traps people into the context of "hard to work with", "difficult", "resistant"

「有挑戰性的」這個詞經常讓人陷入「難以相處的」、「困難的」、「反抗的」這樣的印象

all these words that we use in society to describe that situation

這些詞都是我們在社會中用來描述這些處境的

For me, if Im hitting against that in some way, then its time for me to regroup

對於我來說，如果我碰了釘子，那這是我自己重新思考的時候

and to refocus on myself because that means that

我會注重在自己這方面，因為這可能意味著

I havent taken enough time to get to know the person

我沒有花足夠的時間來了解這個人

in the way that they wanted me to know them

以這個人希望我了解他的方式來了解他

or that I havent really gotten the full context of the person

或者我沒有完全了解這個人的全部

and so I have to go back and recraft questions to really get to know them

所以我必須回去重新思考我的問題，使得我能真的了解他們

and what are they trying to tell me

他們正嘗試告訴我什麼

what am I not understanding

我沒有理解什麼

Whats the long-term career path for executive coaches? 經理人培訓師的長遠職業發展如何？

I would say its more in flex

我認為這是靈活流動的

I think for me, it would be just doing more

of the same and with broader knowledge

對我自己來說，我會以更寬泛的知識來更多的做我現在同樣的事情

like you know, maybe taking more classes

and being more certified, and things like that

比如上更多的課，考更多的職稱

and having more access to a bigger community

有更大的客戶群

I would love to, like you know, coach coaches at some point

在一定的時候，培訓經理人顧問

or maybe write articles and books, and thats on my bucket list

或者寫寫文章，出出書，這都在我的「列表「上

You can take it so many different direction

你可以有很多不同的方向

Like I said, if you have a niche

that youre working with

就像我說的，如果你有一個專業領域

If you can broaden that or if you want to switch industries and things like that

你可能擴充或者換專註的領域

Memes 口口相傳

Execuctive coach is a fancy busienss version of therapist 經理人培訓師是心理治療師的華麗商業版

Is it true or not?

這是真的假的？

Oh man! I would say not true

哦。。。我會說是假的

may be true like 2%

可能只有2%是真的

I think, you know, fansy is not the word I

would probably use

我認為」華麗「不是我會用的詞

Its a complete different world

這是一個完全不一樣的世界

So similarities would be dealing with people

相似的地方在於你是和人相處

and being able to relate and and be empathetic and stay in that place with somebody

要能夠與人共情、有同情心、支持那個人

That would be the similarity. Everything else is different!

這是相似點。其他所有的都是不一樣的！

Exeuctive coach is a know-it-all person 經理人培訓師什麼都知道

I highly highly disagree with this one

我非常非常不同意這一點

I dont think theres such thing as a know-it-all person right?

我不認為有」無所不知「的人，對吧？

Were all in it together

我們在一艘船上

I definitely dont like sitting in an expert role

我不喜歡坐在專家的位置上

I like the much more collaborative role and this is true for my therapy as well

我喜歡更加有合作性的角色。我做心理諮詢時也是這樣

so therapy and coaching, I think I tend to kind of have the same perspective

心理諮詢和經理人培訓，我用相同的方式對待

I feel very uncomfortable making choices for people

為別人做出選擇會令我很不舒服

So people should not expected to just get an answer on what you should do when they come to you

所以人們來找你時，不應該期待你會告訴他們該怎麼做

Dont come to me if thats what you want, yeah?

對，如果你想我告訴你該怎麼做，不要來找我

Its more an open conversation about the choices and evaluate together, right?

這是一個開放式的關於選擇的探討，然後一起衡量，對嗎？

I will say I will do my very best to give you as many opportunities for those multiple storylines to exist

我會盡我最大努力讓你看到好幾種可能性的存在

and to those multiple identities to exist

讓你認識到好多種認知的存在

and that is my job

這是我的工作

And if I havent done that, then I havent done my job

如果我沒有做到這一點，那我就失敗了

So theres definitely work being done

所以絕對是有很多活兒要乾的

I dont want to paint the picture that we dont do any work

我不想讓人們誤以為我們不幹活

We do a lot of work, right?

我們干很多活，對吧？

You know we do a lot of work

你知道我們干很多活

Of course, yeah

是啊

Executive coaches know a lot of peoples personal secrets 經理人培訓師知道人們很多的秘密

That is true

這是真的

but you never release it; you never talk about it

但是你從來不會泄露，從來不會說

Yes, highly confidential at all times

是的，任何時候都是保密的

You have to be able to hold that and to hold peoples dear secrets

你必須要保證幫助人們保密

Even to your two babies

就算是對你的兩個寶寶也是一樣

Even to my two babies. Thats right.

就算是對我的兩個寶寶，的確是這樣

Executive coaches are very rich 經理人培訓師賺很多

Not true

不是真的

Potentially true

有可能成為真的

Jarfa is thinking - am I rich?

Jarfa在想，我是不是很有錢？

I will say its a big spectrum

我覺得這是一個很大的範圍

Yeah, you can definitely have a lucrative business

你可以很賺錢

but to go in expecting that - absolutely not

但是一開始進入這個行業就期待很賺錢，絕對不行

This is a really good one

這個很好

I personally believe its true

我個人認為是真的

Executive coaches are the heroes and secret recipes behind successful people 經理人培訓師是成功人士背後的後盾

I would hope its true

我會希望這是真的

I dont want, I would never want to take the credit for people, peoples own work that they put in

但是我不想忽略人們自己的努力

I do think its probably one of the most valuable things to spend time with somebody who is genuinely interested in you

我的確認為和一個真心想幫助你成長的人一起探討可能是最有價值的事情之一

I think thats huge value

我認為這有很大的價值

And I think companies are starting to realize

我認為公司也開始認識到這一點

Even at C-level, CEO and things, there is benefit

就算在CEO這樣的層次，也是很有用的

別忘了，我們在很多地方等著你哦！

每周末更新！敬請期待！

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