Jimmy O. Yang 歐陽萬成 |《矽谷》美國華裔演員的移民經歷和他自嘲的人生

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隔著12個小時的時差

我們倆終於翻譯完了這篇簡直是

長得不能再長的文章

期間不斷斟酌適合的用詞和語氣

只希望帶給大家我們看到的有意思的一些觀點

Jimmy O. Yang確實是個有才華又對事情有自我見解的人

當然 他還很搞笑

放上一小段他上Arsenio Hall的脫口秀

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或者先看看視頻

別只顧著工作 也讓自己多笑笑

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歐陽萬成(Jimmy O·Yang) 脫口秀（我想說，真的好笑）

I recently read this interview with Hong Kong-born actor Jimmy O. Yang and found it contained some interesting discussion about what it means to be Asian-American, masculinity and Asian men, Asian stereotypes, and how people define "American." While the interviewer and interviewee briefly expressed opinions related to these concepts, one conversation between two people is certainly not enough to provide anything near a comprehensive view of issues that are part of millions of peoples lives. Please be encouraged to comment after reading with any thoughts you may have about the topics touched upon in the interview.

我最近讀了一篇關於出生在香港的美國演員歐陽萬成的報道，然後發現裡面包含了好些對於身為一個亞裔美國人、男子氣概的定義、亞洲男人、亞洲人偏見以及人們怎麼定義「美國人」這些話題有很多有意思的探討。當採訪者與被採訪者都簡單的闡述了看法之後，一場兩人之間關於這個龐大族群生活上各種爭議性話題的探討也只能是淺析而已，想要深入及全面，確實還有距離。在看完這篇報道之後，如果有任何想法，請留言，我們可以一起探討，以下是一些採訪的節選。

• Jimmy O. Yang is an actor, stand-up comedian, and writer who got his start on Two Broke Girls before finding fame on Silicon Valley. He is also part of the cast of the upcoming film Crazy Rich Asians.
• 歐陽萬成，演員，脫口秀主持人/段子手，作家，參與演出過《破產姐妹》、《矽谷》、《瘋狂的亞洲富豪》（2018）

• immigrant from Hong Kong
• 來自香港的美國華人

• He is now 30, immigrated to the U.S. with his family at age 13.
• 現今三十歲，十三歲的時候隨家人移民到了美國

• Book: How to American: An Immigrants Guide to Disappointing Your Parents
• 出版書籍：《如何成為美國人，一本教你令父母失望的移民指南》

Yangs Huffington Post interview below:

Your book is entitled 「How To American,」 so at what point did you feel that you had successfully 「Americaned?」 When did you feel you could claim the American identity as your own?

你寫的這本書以 「怎麼當美國人」作為開頭，所以你什麼時候才感覺到自己已經成功地成為了一位「美國人」呢？你多久感覺到了自己的美國民族身份認同？

I think when I joined my fourth fantasy football league, I thought, 「I know what』s going on now.」 [Laughs] Really, the big moment was when I went against my parents』 will. Up until that moment I felt, in a way, very Asian ― doing something that I deep down didn』t want to do just to please my parents because it was a real job to them and to Chinese culture. When I quit my internship and started doing standup to pursue my dreams and do that full time ― I feel like that』s when I 「Americaned.」

應該是我第四次參加幻想橄欖球聯盟的時候，當時我想，「嗯，我現在才懂了。」 （笑）其實，決定性的時刻是我對抗父母的意志的時候。在此之前，我還覺得自己的行為屬於很「亞洲」的——那就是做自己不想做的事情，只為了取悅父母，因為在父母眼中和中國文化里這個工作才算是「真正」的工作。最後我辭掉了實習工作，然後追逐夢想全職地去做單人脫口秀喜劇演員的時候才覺得自己成為了「美國人」。

Your book includes these very Chinese references ― like the tiny stool that people sit on while preparing vegetables ― that Asian-Americans never really see in books. It』s something so specific and insider-y. Why do you feel it was important for you to weave these elements into your story?

你寫的書中提到一些很中國的事情，比如說，大家準備蔬菜的時候坐的那個小矮凳子，這是一件美國亞洲華裔不會在書上看得到的事情，真的是太地道啦！你為何覺得把這樣的小細節交織在書里是很重要的呢？

Everybody talks about that stool! I think one of the reasons I wanted to write this book is there isn』t a lot of this material out there. I wanted people to relate. When I went to my grandpa』s house, where everything was Asian inside but the outside world was very American, it was very confusing. You feel lost. You feel like you』re the only one going through it because you don』t see a lot of that representation anywhere else. ...

大家竟然都說到那個小矮凳啊！我想我把這個細節寫進書里其中一部分原因也是因為這樣類似的情節都是很少見的。我想讓大家都因此感同身受。當我去爺爺家的時候，我發現屋子裡所有東西都是特別亞洲的，而出了屋子就是美國，讓人特別的迷惑，感到迷失。你會覺得你才是唯一一個有過這些經歷的人，因為除了自己家，別的地方都見不到這些景象。

I want this book to be not just relatable to immigrant people and Chinese kids, but also tell a really honest, first-person, point-of-view story of an immigrant assimilating to this country. Immigration is in the media and the news right now and people talk about it in a partisan way, a political way. And that』s just not really a reference for most Americans of a real immigrant story, so I think it』s important to share that with them. I just want this book to show a real experience and then they can come up with a more informed opinion on immigration. ... I want to humanize the process of immigration ― in an honest, easy-to-read humorous way.

我希望這本書不僅僅只在移民們和中國小孩的手裡傳閱，更希望它從一種虔誠、第一人稱視角的角度來說移民們在這個國家慢慢被同化的故事。現在，越來越多關於移民的故事出現在新聞和媒體上，可是民眾談起他們的時候還是與黨派、政治聯繫在一起。但那並不是真正代表大多數美國移民人的故事，所以我才覺得把自己的故事分享出來是如此的重要。我只想通過這本書讓大家了解移民們的真實生活，以一種誠實的，簡單易懂並且幽默的方式讓移民這一過程看起來更人性化一些，從而讓大家對移民們有更深入的認知。

No matter how long we Asians are in the U.S., or even if we』re born here, we』re often just seen as Asian immigrants in the eyes of many non-Asians. But as Constance Wu, who』s in Crazy Rich Asians with you, pointed out, there』s a distinction between the Asian experience and the Asian-American experience. When you first immigrated here, did you notice the contrast?...We all go through the same experience to some degree. When I became an American citizen, nothing』s changed because I』m still Asian. Nobody』s going to look at me as an American before an Asian person ― at least for now. If I go to Italy, or even Japan, nobody』s going to look at me and say, 「Look, it』s an American person! Look at his cool passport! Rocky Balboa!」 and give me a high five. ...

不管亞洲人在美國領土上的歷史有多悠久，或者說就算我們本來就生在這片土地上，可是在非亞洲人的眼中，我們還是亞洲移民。就像出演《瘋狂的亞洲富豪》里的吳恬敏說的那樣，亞洲人和亞裔美國人的經歷還是有所區別的。當你剛剛移民到這裡時，你發現這些區別了嗎？在某種程度上，我們都有過相同的經歷。當我成為一個美國公民時，什麼都沒改變，同樣，我還是一個亞洲人。在我亞洲人的皮囊面前，沒人會把我當做美國人，至少現在是這樣，如果我去了義大利，或者日本，沒有人會在看到我的時候說：「看！這是個美國人！瞧瞧他的美國護照，像洛基一樣酷！」然後興奮的和我擊掌……

But when I first came here, one of the things that was most painful was not just that I would go up to a group of white kids or black kids and they didn』t accept me because I didn』t speak English well enough, it was when I went up to other Asian kids who were born here and they shunned me even more. They themselves don』t want to get made fun of and be associated as a foreign person as I am. I understand it, especially when you』re a kid you just wanna be normal and fit in ― why would you want to be a foreign kid? But that』s tough.

回想當我初剛到這裡的時候，讓我感到最難受的事不是我去找白人或者黑人小孩玩耍他們因為我英語不好不接受我，而是我去找一群出生在本地的亞洲小孩玩耍，他們直接遠遠就避開了我。他們本身不願意因為像我一樣是個外國人而被其他人取笑。我明白，特別是當你還是個孩子的時候，所有願望就是成為一個普通且合群的人，怎麼可能你想成為一個別人眼中的外國小孩？那簡直是太難了。

Even in Hollywood, in acting in general, there』s this discussion of character representations and ethnic representations. I know some actors who will not even audition for a role with an Asian accent. I empathize with that but I completely disagree with that because that』s the same kid who didn』t want to hang out with me in high school or middle school ― that Asian-American kid who didn』t want to hang out with the foreign kid because they think it makes them look bad.I understand the whole constant foreigner stereotype but for me it』s important to portray immigrant characters like Jian-Yang and Danny Meng with humanity. It』s maybe a better thought to change the perception of an accent than to avoid it all together. I take offense [when people don』t go for parts with accents] ― it』s like saying, 「I』m better than my immigrant brother with an accent.」

就算是在好萊塢，在表演中總的來說都會有關於角色表現及民族表現的討論。我知道有一些演員根本都不會去參加一些要求帶有亞洲口音的角色面試。我雖然明白但是卻難以說服自己接受這樣的做法，因為他們此刻也就變成了那些在我初高中時期不願意和我一起玩耍的亞裔美國人，因為他們會覺得這樣讓他們丟臉了。我理解外國人的刻板印象，但是對我來說刻畫好一個有血有肉的像Jian-Yang（<矽谷>角色）和Danny Meng（<恐襲波士頓>角色）這樣的移民角色十分重要。在這樣的觀點上，改變對口音的看法這件事比起直接拒絕還是來得有意義一些吧。我確實覺得「人們不去參與有口音的面試」這件事讓我大為惱火，就像是在說「我比我帶口音的兄弟要好得多一樣。」

I wanted to get into the character of Jian-Yang. In the Asian-American community, he is divisive. Some, including one media watchdog, have labeled him a trope or a collection of stereotypes. Do you feel there』s any truth to that? Or do you think there』s much more to Jian-Yang? Jian-Yang at the end of the day is a foreign guy like I was. First of all, I play the accent really real. A lot is taken from my mother, and a lot is taken from my uncles and relatives back home in Shanghai. It』s not just a shitty impression of a Cantonese Bruce Lee accent, it』s a very specific Mandarin accent. And then the character itself, maybe in the beginning when he only had a few words, few lines, [he was a trope], but I never tried to play him as a stereotype at all. This is me ― a lot of stuff was a parallel to my own life.

現在我想深入的談一下《矽谷》里Jian-Yang這個角色。在美國亞裔社會裡，他算是個爭議。包括一些媒體監察機構都給他貼上刻板印象的標籤。你覺得這說得通嗎？或者說你認為Jian-Yang還有更多的可以說？說到底，Jian-Yang只是那個和曾經的我一樣的外國人。首先，我的口音很讓人信服，大部分都是來自我媽媽，剩下的一些來自我上海老家的舅舅們還有親戚們。那和粗略去模仿李小龍的廣東口音完全不一樣，它是真真正正的普通話口音。然後就這個角色本身，雖然一開始他只有一些單字，或者幾句台詞（象徵意義上的），但是我從沒想過去嘗試把這個角色表現得很刻板。這就是我——外界與現實生活互為參考線的我。

Like on the first day of school, when I heard the pledge of allegiance and I just followed along because I didn』t know what was going on. Jian-Yang does that quite a bit ... you』ve got to find the right motivation, the right parallels. I think as the character develops, he becomes a much more three-dimensional character. Beyond just the accent, he』s just kinda an asshole now and he』s funny. ... I get where [the criticism』s] coming from but is it warranted? I don』t know. For me, I always play these characters as if they』re just a version of myself 15 years ago.

就像是我進學校的第一天，當我聽到宣誓詞的時候，直接就跟著讀了，因為我完全不知道當時是什麼情況，Jian-Yang也有點這種感覺——需要去找他覺得正確的動機，以此來作為參考。我覺得隨著角色性格慢慢發展，他也變得越來越真實起來。拋開口音不說，他其實有一些痞氣當然還很滑稽。我知道那些負面的報道從哪裡來，但是有必要嗎？我不知道。對我而言，這些角色都帶有我15年前生活的影子。

Look, to be honest, when certain movies like Ninja Assassin came out, that had a sexy, sexy Asian man with a six-pack, that made some people think, 「Maybe I should go out there and date an Asian dude.」 And that did pretty good for us in a way of representation. But if you look at it, any TV show, let』s just talk about white people ― there』s a whole gamut of white people. ... They』re all different people but when Thomas [Middleditch] is playing a nerdy character, does he take shit for it? No, because there are a million other white people who play good-looking characters or whatever.

老實說，當一些像《忍者刺客》這樣的電影出來的時候，並且裡面還有有著六塊腹肌的超級性感的亞洲人，可能觀眾就會想：「乾脆我也去找一位亞洲人吧。」在某種程度上，電影在這方面表現得不錯。但是，如果你仔細想，任何一個電視節目，我們只說白人——簡直滿屏幕都是白人……他們都是完全不同的個體，當托馬斯·米德蒂奇演了一個書獃子的角色，他因此而受到別人的另眼相看了嗎？沒有，因為有其他無數的白人角色都是一些好看美貌的人或者相似的角色。

I think people get sensitive, and I get it because there』s just not enough representation. So I somehow carry a lot of weight. I』m not a good-looking guy in general. What are you going to tell me? Don』t represent me on TV because I don』t look like Chow Young Fat（Chow Yun Fat）? Like fuck you, dude! I』m just a quirky, funny dude. Are you saying a fat, geeky Asian dude can』t represent you on TV? Fuck you, that』s who he is, and he could be a good actor. Really at the end of the day, certain movies like Crazy Rich Asians ― I think that』s gonna be huge because that』s the one movie that shows a whole gamut of people. Me and Ken [Jeong] are both in that movie and we』re really comfortable just being the funny guys. Then you have other people who play the good-looking guys. And you have tall, short, fat, whatever. We can just be ourselves.

人們開始變得越來越敏感了，我之所以這樣覺得是因為不夠多元化。所以，我也不知怎地就擔起了這個責任。我在大眾審美中不算是長得好看的人，你想要告訴我什麼？不要以上電視的標準來衡量我，因為我長得不像周潤發？去你的！我只是一個奇怪又搞笑的男人而已。你意思是說那些有點胖又令人討厭的亞洲人並不能在電視中代表你嗎？再次去你的！那就是演員，一個演好角色的演員。最終，像是《瘋狂的亞洲富豪》這一類的電影肯定會火起來，是因為終於有一部電影表現了所有的人們。我和鄭肯（Ken Jeong）都出演了這部電影，而且我們都以自己扮演的搞笑的人覺得特別的舒服自在。然後總會有其他的人來演那些好看的角色，還有高矮胖瘦等等的角色，我們可以只做我們自己就好了。

I』d like to touch on masculinity. There』s a debate in the Asian-American community over whether Asian-American feminists are supporting Asian men enough? Do you think they are? Do you think that should even be part of their responsibility? Go fuck whoever you want! I think everyone should support Asian men and men of all kinds. But is your preference white dudes because you grew up watching Brad Pitt? I can』t blame you, I grew up watching Jennifer Aniston, too. Look, I think representation is extremely important but people have their preferences. You can』t tell someone, 「You need to go date an Asian guy!!!」 Go ahead, date whoever you want. At the end of the day, representation forms people』s opinions a lot of the time.

我還想談談男子氣概這件事。在亞裔美國人社會中有一場關於亞裔美國女性主義者是否足夠支持亞裔美國男性的討論。你覺得呢？還是說你認為這是他們職責的一部分？與你喜歡的人在一起和膚色種族無關！我覺得所有人都應該支持亞洲男人和男人這個物種。或者是說你選擇白人男性其實是因為你從小就看著布拉德皮特長大的？我不怪你，我從小也是看著詹妮弗·安妮絲頓長大的。所以說，我認為多元化非常重要，人們都可以有自己的選擇。但是你不能說「你需要和一個亞洲人約會！」隨便你，想和誰約會那是你的事。最後，其實絕大多數時間人們的表現也代表了他們自己。

Girls had the pickings out there for Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, Mark Wahlberg ― those guys spoke to them in their teenage years. We just don』t have that many choices for Asians. There just aren』t that many of us out there. Hopefully we can all kinda be part of that mainstream society and be part of people』s psyche coming up in the future.

好多女生可以任意在強尼·戴普，布拉德·皮特，馬克·沃爾伯格中間選擇——這些都是曾經陪伴過她們青春的男生。可是我們亞洲人確實沒有那麼多的選擇，能讓人們看到的確實少之又少。希望未來的我們都可以成為主流社會的一份子，以及成為人們心中不可缺少的一部分。