悠問專訪 | 渥太華-卡爾頓教育局國際項目負責人Geoff Best

Geoff Best

渥太華—卡爾頓教育局國際學生項目負責人加拿大公立學校協會（國際）執行委員 Director, Ottawa International Student ProgramsOttawa-Carleton District School Board Executive Committee, Canadian Association of Public Schools-International

渥太華—卡爾頓教育局（Ottawa-Carleton District School Board，簡稱OCDSB）是加拿大最大的公立教育局之一，提供9到12年級的高中國際生項目，在OCDSB的學校中，有8所公立中學提供ESL（English as a second language）課程，幫助國際學生學習英語及適應加拿大文化。

出國讀高中究竟好不好？國外高中與國內高中有和差異？到加拿大讀高中需要具備什麼條件呢？帶著這些問題，悠問網專門採訪了渥太華—卡爾頓公立教育局國際學生項目負責人，Geoff Best 先生。

1.How important is it for International students to experience high-school education overseas?對於國際學生而言，在國外讀高中的經驗有多重要？

I think it』s very important that students have some experiences in the western-style classroom before they go into university. It gives them the opportunity to see what their peers in university, the skills they have developed in university, a lot independence study, which is a big part of university; essay writing, and plagiarism, especially for students who come from the eastern where they are not always writing essay-style answers for marks. So, coming here and see how the Canadian education is delivered. Here we have University preparation courses, that specifically for students who are preparing to go to a University. So, if you plan to go to University and college here, they are ideal. If possible, I recommend a minimum of 2 years. One year is very challenging, you are still trying to understand the culture, depends on the level of your English, it would be very difficult. 我認為在進入大學之前體驗西方授課方式，提前了解大學即將面對的學習和生活，比如在大學裡需要培養的技能，獨立的學習能力以及論文寫作的能力，對於國際學生都是很重要的。此外，還要對學術剽竊（plagiarism）有所了解（哪些行為算剽竊？有什麼樣的後果？加拿大對於原創和知識產權的保護是看得特別重的）。這些對於來自東方國家或是之前不習慣長篇寫作題目的學生尤為重要。 在加拿大的高中，我們開設的有些課程正是為了學生讀大學做準備的。所以，如果你希望以後在加拿大讀大學的話，選擇在加拿大讀高中是非常理想的。如果條件允許，我建議在加拿大讀大學之前至少在加拿大讀兩年高中，因為根據每個人的語言水平不同，僅一年的學習對於國際學生的挑戰會非常大。

2.How do you like the phenomenon that more and more Chinese International students are studying in Canada?您如何看待越來越多的中國學生留學選擇到加拿大留學？ Yes, there are quite a few more Chinese students coming here. When I first starting doing this, they couldn』t get a VISA to come here and study in high school level, so it changes quite dramatically.的確，現在越來越多中國學生來到加拿大留學。由於簽證政策的關係，我剛擔任國際學生項目負責人時，來渥太華讀高中的中國學生還很少，現在的變化是巨大的。

It』s good for our classrooms, and we don』t know as much about east and east does about west and the exposure to international students from China. They are also living in Canadian families and in their classrooms, so it』s an opportunity for people to start to understand a lot more about China, and try to bridge the distance. The distance psychologically seems much greater in than from Europe, where there are a lot more things that we have in common, the alphabet, I think that』s probably something that people look at very difficult to understand and maybe very difficult to learn, so just exposure and gradually to understand how China works, I think it』s very good for all of us to have Chinese students coming to the classroom.這對我們教育界是好事。原先東西方了解不多，而現在可以接觸到來自遙遠中國的國際學生，他們住進加拿大家庭里，融入班級中，這讓加拿大本地學生也能夠更多地了解中國，搭建了溝通的橋樑。比起歐洲，中國與加拿大在差別更大些，因為我們與歐洲相似之處很多，比如字母。我認為這或許是造成中加比較難以理解對方，難以學習對方語言、文化的原因。我們需要多的與中國人交流，更好的了解中國。中國學生來加拿大學習，對我們所有人來說都是有益的。 How to integrate them, that』s a challenge. How can we create opportunity for them to make friends here and to become part of Canadian community and make them feel at home, those are still challenges that happen even for Canadian kids going into high school for a start and how to do that effectively is something we try to improve.如何讓遠道而來的留學生融入當地社會依然是個挑戰。如何創造機會讓他們擴充自己的社交圈子，成為這裡的一份子，這些都不是容易的事。事實上，即使是加拿大本地的孩子剛剛進入高中，如何幫助他們更好的開始適應新的高中生活，也依然是我們努力的方向。

3.What programs should International students attend or choose to attend, such as, ESL, AP, or IB?國際學生應該選擇什麼樣的課程呢，比如ESL，AP，IB？

A lot of programs depends on your English level. You have been studying English in China before coming here, you are probably doing pretty well, you don』t need English as a second language, English language courses to prepare for you taking really English literature. Let』s say generally, most students come here in grade ten, and their English level is pretty low. But with three years they have their time they need, strong motivated students graduate and go on to university. 大多數課程還是取決於你的英語水平。如果你在來加拿大之前，你英語學的很好，就不需要參加ESL（英語作為第二語言）課程。大多數學生來這邊讀10年級，英語水平還較低。但是，經過三年的學習，他們接受了足夠的英語訓練，尤其學習自主性強的學生，都可以順利畢業並繼續大學學習。 AP, the advanced placement, and IB programs, those are really for self-motivated students. AP courses are basically an independent credit. There is a teacher who oversees the course and provides instructions, but primarily, you do a lot of projects and independent study.IB, similar, assume you are fluency in English, which is a very challenging course, a lot of extra work, Canadian students will struggle with that. Again, these are for self-motivated students, people who doing really exceptional well in their own country. If you want to face to challenges and don』t need spare time, you can choose this program. AP課程（大學預修課程，Advanced Placement）與IB課程（國際預科證書課程，international baccalaureate diploma program）適合學習自主性非常強的學生。AP課程有獨立的學分，會有老師來指導這個課程，但主要還是需要學生獨立完成一些學習項目；IB課程同樣充滿挑戰，需要相當流利的英語，還有很多額外的作業，對加拿大的學生來說也並不容易。當然，如果你語言流利，學習自主性強，不懼挑戰，想充分利用時間，可以選擇這一課程。

4.Many International students are curious about how hard the course would be in a Canadian high schools? Which level of ESL program would they be placed in, is there any resources they can actually prepare themselves before attending high school?很多國際學生想知道在加拿大高中英語究竟有多難？他們處於ESL哪個水平？上高中之前應該如何提高英語？ We do the assessment and we can evaluate students』 English level. Everyone thinks their English is good, maybe it』s true in their country, but it』s in relation to whom. So, fluent English means you can do the research work in English.學生抵達渥太華之後需要到教育局對英語水平進行測試。有的學生覺得自己英語不錯，但這要看和誰相比，也許在自己的國家英語還不錯，但這裡，我指的流利的英語，意味著你能夠運用英語從事一些研究工作。 Maybe IELTS 6.5 would be a good score, but it depends. When they come here, you may find reading and writing skills are strong, but when they are asked to write an essay, they don』t have the skills. Generally, the average students come from China would be level 2 or 3. Generally speaking, you should be able to take notes in the classroom, listen to native speaker and they need to understand the instructional English. Daily conversationally English may be not satisfied and you should have the fundamental skill to have academic study.或許雅思6.5這分數還不錯，但這個分數並不能完全代表你的英語水平。學生到了這邊，你也許會發現他們的閱讀和寫作技巧還不錯，但是，在語言的靈活運用或者essay(話題作文，小論文)的寫作這些方面還有所欠缺。評估通常會讓我們比較準確了解學生的英語水平。一般而言，來自中國的學生能力達到2級或3級（共5級） 。總之，學生在上課時要能夠記筆記，與當地人交流，理解英語老師上課時的指示性語言。日常交際英語是不夠的，你需要具備進行學術性學習的基本語言能力。

5.There are many Sino-Canada schools operated in China, how do you compare the quality of these kinds of schools to Canadian local high schools?

在中國有許多中加合辦的學校，您是如何看待這些學校跟加拿大當地高中的？ That』s a good question。To compare these schools, people may look at how long it has been around, how many students are going to universities? Are they actually Canadian teachers? Are they the government certified teachers? How often do they change?這是個很好的問題，如何選擇中加學校，你可以多問些問題， 比如，學校建校多久？大學錄取率？師資力量如何？是否是政府認證的正規教師等。 I think a good high-school should create opportunities for students to prepare for their future, like the university preparation. I don』t know much information of Sino-Canada overseas. But for Ontario, I think they must have 80% of their staff as certified Canadian teachers, they must have a Canadian principle, and have to show some financial stability to Chinese government or parents. Challenge we have in Ontario right now is that you don』t have certified teachers to run a high school or certified principle to become a credit school. Since students go to international school, their parents can』t see and only get the messages from what their child says, advertisement says, and some friends says, often there seems to be promise of you pass and you get your credits.我認為一所好的高中要為學生的未來創造機會，比如為進入大學做好準備。我對加拿大以外的中加學校了解不多，但是，在安大略省，中國學生就讀的高中需要具備以下條件：具有教師資格證的加拿大教師須占教師總數的80%，須有一名具備教育局認證資質的校長，而且還必須具備一定的經濟實力。但如今我們面臨的問題是，在安省的私立高中並不需要滿足這些條件就可以運營。學生家長對於學校的了解全部來源於學生的反饋，廣告宣傳或者朋友的道聽途說，通常這些廣告里會說我們保證你成功獲得學分。

Some of the students are struggling here, as there are too much freedom for them and it』s up to you to get your assignment in or classroom works, there is no major exam. So if the students are not self-disciplined, academically driven and self-motivated, this would be very challenging. So, those schools could help them. In this case, you need to ask question to get more information about the school, like do you have certified teachers, how long have you been doing this, how to get my money back if things don』t work out. 在公立學校，由於學校給予學生的自由度很高，學生可以選擇交不交作業，參與不參與課堂活動，沒有大型的考試（期中，期末）。如果學生不自律，不能踏實自主學習的話，那麼私立學校也許可以有所幫助。在選擇私立學校的時候， 你需要多了解這些學校的信息，比如「是否配備具有教師資格證的合格教師」、「建校多久了」、「如果沒有達到預期該怎樣退錢呢」等問題。 If your purpose is to come to Canada to study here and you want an all English-speaking environment, then putting them in school with all the students are second language leaners, and they are staying with a Chinese family, would it not be better just to go to a Canadian school in China.如果你來加拿大學習的目的是想給孩子一個全英文的環境， 但是卻將孩子放到一個周圍全部都是英語作為第二語言孩子的學校， 寄宿家庭也是華人，難道在中國讀一所加拿大學校不是更好嗎？

6.I』ve heard that you have been to China several times, in which areas do you think Ottawa high schools can cooperate with Chinese high schools in the future?您曾多次去中國，您認為渥太華高中未來在哪些領域可以與中國的高中展開合作？ Yes, I have been to China several times since 2000. We have been working with some education bureau and other institutions in China for a long time. We do most exchange of elementary students coming in for a short spare time and does teacher training with them.是的，自從2000年以來，我去過中國很多次了。我們目前與中國的一些教育局和教育機構建立了合作關係。合作的形式基本以中學生短期交換項目以及教師的培訓項目為主。
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