Indie Figure: 用 PICO-8 開發遊戲原型的 Benjamin Soulé

01-25

引言

Tower of Archeos 是 indienova 去年無意中發現的一款設計得非常出彩的遊戲，非常可惜的是市場反響並不理想。

我們曾寫過一篇它的評測：Tower of Archeos：包裹在輕遊戲外表下的玲瓏匠心

這款遊戲背後的 Benjamin Soulé 是一名勤奮又有才華的獨立開發者，他的個人網站展示了大量有趣的原型作品。我們有幸聯繫到他，了解了遊戲的更多信息，以及背後的一些故事。我們也聊到了西方對中國遊戲市場現在和未來的看法，他的一些觀點讓人覺得頗為有趣，提到的部分問題又多少令人尷尬。這裡把採訪記錄整理如下，希望能對各位讀者起到一些參考價值。

採訪

indienova：

我瀏覽過你的個人網站，上面展示的內容令人為之陶醉。你非常勤奮，做出了如此多的遊戲原型，更別說它們多數都內容紮實，體驗有趣。雖然我們已經知道你是一名既有天分，又通技藝的獨立遊戲開發者，但對你的其他信息卻所知甚少，你可以和我們以及我們的讀者分享一些更多的消息嗎？（比如你的工作室基於那座城市？在 Tower of Archeos 這款遊戲上，你的團隊投入了多久的開發時間？你成為獨立遊戲開發者多久了？你何時起立志成為遊戲開發者？其間又經歷過那些波折起伏呢？）

Benjamin Soulé ：

我生活在拉卡諾，那是臨近大西洋的一個法國小城市。自打孩提時代，我就在上學期間自己的筆記本上嘗試給《戰斧（golden-axe）》，《新澤西故事（new zealand story）》，《神奇男孩（wonderboy）》這些遊戲設計關卡。我大概19-20歲的時候遇見了一些很有才華的朋友，和他們一起創建了一個遊戲公司。此後我花了大概10年製作網頁遊戲。5年前，我決心靠自己繼續在這條路上走下去，花時間做一些個人項目。我覺得成為獨立開發者積極面是，我擁有了充分的創作自由；消極面當然是資金短缺了:）之前擁有團隊時我賺得比現在更多。

indienova：

作為一名玩家，你最喜愛的遊戲是哪一款呢？能為我們的讀者分享一下嗎？

Benjamin Soulé ：

我最喜愛的主流遊戲是 PS1 平台上的《邪惡戰爭（Unholy War）》或者 PS2 平台的《古堡迷蹤（Ico/Shadow of the Colossus）》。我最喜歡的獨立遊戲則是 Iji，DoomRL 或《宇宙巡航機（Hydorah）》。選最喜歡的遊戲真的好難啊。
我注意到 PICO-8 是你最為喜愛的開發工具之一，你如何評價這款復古遊戲引擎呢？
PICO-8 是一款快速遊戲開發工具。真的很快速。對它而言這是非常關鍵的一點，因為我花費了十五年去做一些雖然不大但卻耗時冗長，無止無休的項目。PICO-8 讓我不必在單個項目上耽誤過久時間。

indienova：

在開發 Tower of Archeos 過程中有什麼有趣的事情值得一說嗎？遊戲的靈感來自什麼地方呢？

Benjamin Soulé ：

你可能已經知道 Tower of Archeos 這款遊戲始於 PICO8 開發的原型。我的靈感主要來自我之前沒完成的一款作品（一款融合掃雷和 Roguelike 的遊戲）。最開始我在懷疑是不是要做這樣一款不需要滑鼠控制的解密遊戲，但到最後，成果還挺讓人開心的。製作 steam 版本的時候，我可以用上滑鼠了，但某種意味上這個版本少了一點 PICO-8 版本的街機遊戲味道。這讓我有一丁點傷心。

indienova：

Tower of Archeos 融合了三消，卡牌和 Roguelike 多種元素。為何你會製作這樣一款混搭元素的遊戲呢？

Benjamin Soulé ：

我從來不把自己視為一個非常有創意的人。但我掌握了非常紮實的遊戲開發知識（主機和PC平台），並且我的多數作品都會將2到3個已有的遊戲類型融合成新玩法當中。我曾經將貪吃蛇的玩法和集換式卡牌融合，還曾將其和累積博彩的系統融合。我認為將現有元素融合還有非常多的探索空間。

indienova：

我不得不說，你的遊戲讓我覺得非常驚艷，因為它獨特，深刻又精心設計的遊戲機制。你是如何做到這一點的呢？

Benjamin Soulé ：

我非常著迷於追求可重玩性。我總是會設置選項，職業和獎勵來確保遊戲每個部分的體驗都獨一無二。通常這會使得遊戲的後期平衡成為一項艱難的任務，但我非常享受這種一點一點調整優化的過程。

indienova：

據我所知，Tower of Archeos 節奏很快，而且通關時間也並不很長。一些玩家也指出多數遊戲交互都只需要滑鼠點擊，因此他們覺得這款遊戲只需要一些有限的改動（比如縮小地圖格子的尺寸和數量，調整關卡難度等等），就能非常契合移動平台。你有移植移動平台的計劃嗎？

Benjamin Soulé ：

操作適配將會是最困難的部分，尤其是玩家在手機遊戲里沒法看到懸浮提示。我能解決這些問題，不過，問題在於我只在 steam 上賣了300 份遊戲拷貝，我很不確定移動端的效果會不會更好。我也覺得我已經在這款遊戲上花了太多時間了，想嘗試一些其他的類型。我並不擅長在單個遊戲上投入太多時間。

indienova：

我知道你至少在小範圍內收穫過一些積極的反饋，但根據 steam.spy 的數據來看，很不幸的是，這款如此棒的遊戲銷量卻十分慘淡。或許和缺乏曝光有關，但最為主要的原因應該是偏高的定價。對於一些非常喜歡這款遊戲的人，比如我來說，並不介意價格昂貴，會覺得值得。但為何你會定下這樣一個高於多數同類遊戲的價格呢？

Benjamin Soulé ：

老實說，我對銷量慘淡有所預料，如果你投入在宣傳方面的時間和資金都有限，就不應當指望奇蹟出現。考慮到我主要依賴人數有限的鐵粉支持，他們可以接受一個偏高的市場價格，而我則不必承擔入不敷出的高昂成本。我懷疑價格降低一半是不是會有兩倍的玩家。但我並不是這方面的專家，或許我做了錯誤的決策。

indienova：

你是一名非常勤奮的開發者，已經投身到了新的項目之中。作為獨立開發者，你未來有什麼計劃呢？

Benjamin Soulé ：

我正在嘗試發布另一款 steam 遊戲，此外還在嘗試在 Kickstarter 上眾籌一款桌游。我還很熱衷參加 gamejams 比賽，雖然12月份的 ludumdare 我沒能按時完成作品。我有大量沒完工的半成品，還想繼續填坑，可又缺少時間。我還是一名8個月大的小姑娘的父親，做父親可是一件消耗巨大的事情

indienova：

你曾非常善意地評價中國的獨立遊戲生態比你想像得更加廣闊。中國的獨立開發者會面對許多艱難和獨特的挑戰，但我們一直在努力摸索一條道路。我的同事 Luis Wong 曾撰寫過一篇描述中國獨立遊戲生態的文章，而你對中國的遊戲市場是如何評價的呢？考慮到對於海外開發者來說，它潛力巨大卻又困難重重。

Benjamin Soulé ：

謝謝你提供這篇文章，它非常有意思，我之前沒有聽說過中國的主機遊戲禁令。這樣就解釋了為何中國會興起 F2P 遊戲，但是也會使得中國玩家對復古遊戲的審美更加敏感：如果主機遊戲的歷史曾在 2000 年左右終結，那麼一定會形成非常強烈的懷舊情結。我在遊戲的這個領域下過很多功夫。
我第一次接觸中國市場的體驗非常奇異：2009年我做過一個名叫 http://mybrute.com 的遊戲，這款遊戲國際反響很好，但有個來自中國的工作室很快就做了一款名叫 tuitui8 的山寨。我通常會宣稱自己不在意知識產權，但事到臨頭，想法又會變化。最後，我決定將其拋諸腦後，畢竟我們本來就沒有將其翻譯到中國市場的計劃。我覺得這篇文章有一點完全說對了，就是多數西方人會覺得中國遊戲市場充斥盜版問題，我之前就是那麼認為的。但事實則是，由於在中國很容易玩到遊戲，越來越多的人開始玩遊戲，開始享受遊戲。隨著遊戲開發工具門檻降低，會有越來越多的人投入到遊戲製作當中。
2013年我去印度旅遊，決定途徑尼泊爾和中國到哈薩克去。在中國停留期間我在做一款遊戲的聲音識別程序。由於我不太懂這一塊，希望通過互聯網做一些調研。但我發現多數相關網頁因為審查無法正常打開。中國的獨立開發者都在這樣的條件下工作，想必很辛苦。

英文版採訪稿

indienova:

I have explored your website for a while and enjoyed a very good time here. It is hard-woring of you to do so many game prototypes, let alone most of those are very solid and juicy. We have known that you are a talented and skillful indie game developer, but don"t know any other infos about you yet, so could you share with us and our readers a little bit about yourself? (such as which city is it based? how long have your team been working on Tower of Archeos? How long have you been an indie game developer? When did you decide that you wanted to be a game developer? What are the ups and downs being an indie game developer?)

Benjamin Soulé:

I live in Lacanau a small city near the atlantic ocean in France. When I was a child I was spending my school time drawing levels in my notebooks ( for golden-axe, new zealand story or wonderboy ). Then When I was 19-20 years old I met some talented friends and built a videogame company with them. I spent 10 years working on web-based games. Then 5 years ago I decided to go on my own and spent some time working on solo projects. I think that the good side of being an indie is the total freedom for creation. The downside is the lack of money I used to earn more money when I was working with a team.

indienova:

As a player, what"s your favorite video games by far? Could you share some names with our readers?

Benjamin Soulé:

For mainstream game I think my favorite games are Unholy War for PS1 or Ico/Shadow of the Colossus for PS2. My favorite indiegames are Iji, DoomRL or Hydorah. It"s really difficult to choose.

indienova:

I noticed that PICO-8 is one of your favorite development tools, how would you evaluate this retro game engine?

Benjamin Soulé:

Pico8 is a fast gamemaking tool. Really fast. This is a very important thing about it, becasue I spent 15 years making small but also very long and neverending projects. Pico8 keep me away from spending too much time on a single project.

indienova:

Any interesting/fun stories you met while developing Tower of Archeos? Where did the inspiration of Tower of Archeos come from?

Benjamin Soulé:

As you may already know, I started tower of archeos as a pico8 project. My main inspiration source is a previous unfinished game I was working on ( a kind of minesweeper-roguelike game https://vimeo.com/87343912 ). When I started, I was suspicious about making a puzzling with no mouse control but in the end I was happy with the result. When I worked on the steam version, I could use the mouse, but I somehow lost the arcade feeling of the pico8 version. I was a bit sad about it.

indienova:

Tower of Archeos is based on match-3, cards game and roguelike, with a blend of various elements. Why did you choose to make such a game with mixed styles?

Benjamin Soulé:

I dont see myself as a very creative person. But I have a solid videogames knowledge ( consoles + computers game ) and most of my game are about mixing 2-3 already existing concepts into a new one. The snake game is a very basic base I mixed it with TCG ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF3oRacyNYo ) or with a jackpot bonus system ( Serpentes by Benjamin Soulé ). I think there"s still a lot to discover by just mixing existing mechanics together.

indienova:

I have to say that I was so much impressed by your game for its unique, deep and well-designed game mechanism. How did you achieve that?

Benjamin Soulé:

I"m kind of obsessed with replayability. I always add options, classes or bonus to make sure each game sessions are unique. It usually makes the balancing time task very long, but I enjoy spending time on all these tweaking.

indienova:

As we know, Tower of Archeos is at a very fast pace and take not very long time to beat, and some players also point out that most interaction in this game only require some clicks of the mouse, so they think that this game will be very suitable for mobile game market after some limited changes, such as reducing the size and numbers of map grids, adjusting the level of difficult and so on. Do you have any plan about moble market of your game?

Benjamin Soulé:

Adapting the control would be the hardest part especially because player would have no access to rollover hints on a mobile game. I think I could achieve that but the problem is I only sold about 300 units on steam and I"m not sure I could do better on mobile market. I also feel like I spent too much time on this game and want to try others concepts. I"m not so good at spending a lot of time on a single game...

indienova:

I know that you get some postive feedbacks at least on a small scale, but the unfortunate reality is that the amazing game has sold very poorly according to steamspy.com. Perhaps beacause of lack of publicity, but one of the most important reason may be the high price. For some guys enjoy this game very much such as me, it is not really expensive and very worthy. But why did you choose such a price much higher than most game of this sort?

Benjamin Soulé:

To be honest, I was expecting that the game would not sale very well, if you don"t want to spend a lot of time or money for publicity there"s no miracle. Knowing that I will rely on a very small but strong fan base I asked them to pay a bit more that the usual market price, so I would not loose too much money working on this. I"m suspicious about the fact that dividing the price by two would have send me twice more players. But I"m far from being an expert, I may be wrong about that.

indienova:

You are very hardworking and have been working on your new project. What is your plans for the future as a indie developer?

Benjamin Soulé:

I"m looking forward to release another steam game and maybe trying to kickstart a boardgame. I"m still interested in gamejams too even if I failed to finish my december ludumdare game in time. I have a lot ( maybe 8-10 ) unfinished project I still want to work on and not so much time to work on them : I"m a father of a 8 month little girl and it"s really time consuming

indienova:

You said that the Chinese indiegame scene seems a lot wider than you expected, that"s very kind words. The indie game developers in China faced a lot of tough and unique challenges, but we are trying hard to make a way through the darkness. One of my colleagues, Luis Wong, wrote an article in KillScreen about it, you can check it here, how did you think of game market in China since it not only hold tremendous potential but also have many diffcults for the overseas developers?

Benjamin Soulé:

Thanks for the article, I found it really interesting, I never heard about the china"s console ban before that. It explains the rise of free-to-play games in China, but I was thinking it could also make Chinese people more sensible to retro game aesthetic : If console game history really ended up in 2000, it must result in a very strong nostalgia feeling. I"m working a lot on this side of videogames.
My first experience with China"s market was strange : in 2009 I worked on a game called mybrute.com. The game was a good international success but a chinese studio built a rippoff called tuitui8. I always claimed I didnt believe in intellectual property but having to actually deals with this problem almost made me change my mind. In the end I decided it was no problem for me, especially because we had no intention to translate it for chinese market.

I think the article is totally right about the fact that most western people think that chinese game market is all about piracy, I also used to think this way. But the fact is : easy/free access to videogames makes more people playing/enjoying videogames. It will then result in a lot of people creating videogames when gamemaker tools become more accessible.
In 2013 I was traveling in India and decided to go to kazakhstan throught Nepal and China. During my stay in china I was trying to work on a voice recognition program for a game and I had to make a lot of internet research because it was way outside of my scope. Most of these researches ended up on censored pages and I was finally unable to finish my game. It must be hard for all chinese indiedev to work in this condition.