起點開放了海外英文網站，會有哪些影響？

01-21

地址是http://www.webnovel.com，目前是0.5版。
起點接下來有哪些計劃，英文版實體書？亞馬遜合作？
對於中國網路小說海外推廣有哪些利弊？
對於現存的先行者，比如武俠世界，有哪些合作，或者影響？
對於武俠世界這類海外開拓者是否不公平？

這個影響要從不同的角度來說。

首先，起點開放英文站，然後開始公開招聘翻譯者和編輯，這是要把網路小說的模式搬過來，用較少的代價來實現其手中海量IP的國際化。之前的粉絲網站（比如wuxiaworld）確實是給閱文集團打了前哨，做了背書，沒有這些人的努力和積累，起點不會輕易邁出這一步。官方走出這一步對於宣傳中國文化，尤其是中國網路小說是有絕對正面的意義的，而且官方打的是組合拳，並非只是蹭蹭粉絲社區的勞動成果那麼簡單，比如youtube上4月中開始連載的《全職高手》動畫版，字幕和畫面內UI的本地化都還不錯，片頭廣告也聯動同名手游，這種推廣力度絕非粉絲社區的自我發展能比。

其次，對於粉絲網站來說，其實是災難了，以起點當初一統江湖的經驗來看，要收拾這些粉絲站不要太容易。一手大棒一手鈔票就是了，鈔票就是按照起點VIP制度給翻譯者付酬，大棒就是版權。粉絲站希望通過購買版權來進行合法翻譯，別做夢了，就算最初的幾部作品你拿到了，以後也不可能給你了，起點玩的就是版權，就是IP，這是他的根本。當然最開始的時候合作姿態還是會擺出來的，甜頭也會給，但未來他一定是要通吃的，否則，組合拳就打得沒有那麼有力道了。

最後，對於翻譯者來說，甚至對於有志於網路小說寫作的英文寫手來說，這是賺錢的機會。不要想不開了，趕緊投入企鵝爸爸的懷抱吧。

至於粉絲網站所謂的「分享的社區」，這個夢就不要做下去了。看不到錢的時候，大家都會安安心心玩情懷，但企鵝爸爸來了，情懷照玩還有錢賺，沒有幾個人會堅持下去。這個套路跟盛大當初收編整個中國網路小說界是一樣一樣的。

當然不排除閱文集團自己作死，比如非要快速變現結果完全站到翻譯者的對立面去，但這種可能性太小了。

網站地址：http://www.webnovel.com 或者 http://en.qidian.com，兩者是一樣的

頁面是這樣的：

放棄原來的qidian的域名，直接採用網路小說英文的翻譯webnovel，起點野心很大。

大家也可以看下起點國際站的開站視頻，做的真的不錯！

Sina Visitor System

同時，首頁上還在招收全職的海外產品運營和數字營銷人員

並在首頁列了一些作者（有大頭照）和相關作品，應該是下一步要出品的英文作品。

點進去可以看到作者作品，但是只是列了一部分，相信就是要翻譯的部分作品。

接下來說明一下：

1.這個肯定是佔了Wuxiaworld等先行者的便宜了，因為，目前連載的小說，有相當部分是從一些其他英文站點移過來的。

2.從起點的動作，可以看到前期主要是培養市場，並且專註於數字化運營。

3.接下來還會有日文站等其他文字站點。

4.原先的英文站點名為http://en.qidian.com棄用了，轉而用了webnovel（網路小說），也就是說，起點的目標是全部的網路小說，這個域名霸氣了。

@跳舞大大的作品在裡面，應該了解一些內幕吧。

==================================================

3月17日更新。

最近國外的中文網路小說社區風起雲湧，接連幾個事件炸出了數百條的討論。

相關主題主要是討論關於起點國際站(http://www.webnovel.com)，wuxiaworld以及Gravitytales之間的關係，比如起點國際站的開站。相關討論168條。

以及最近大約5部翻譯小說一次性從gravitytales轉移至wuxiaworld，引發歐美中國網路小說社區的極大恐慌，相當多的人擔心起點的英文國際版正式啟動會阻礙社區發展。同時擔心Gravitytales的未來。相關討論261條。

同時，近期wuxiaworld甚至因為訪問量太大，造成頁面刷新困難，很多人抱怨要求重新設計網站。查了一下，wuxiaworld美國排名已經進入861位，全世界進入1089名，很快就是全世界1000名以內的網站。有趣的是，wuxiaworld是菲律賓top100網站，菲律賓排名64名。

社區裡面的部分人認為，這次Gravitytales的大量翻譯者轉移至Wuxiaworld，雖然與起點沒有直接聯繫，但是起點國際可能還是在幕後扮演了不光彩。特別是起點國際加入這場遊戲後，讓利益變得更加赤裸裸，Gravitytales堅持著免費、分享的理念，而相當部分人開始考慮利益，社區正在分裂。

社區裡面的部分人對於起點國際的進入有一點焦躁的情緒，擔心起點國際會揮舞版權武器（比如突然選了某個人翻譯某部作品，而這部作品其實已經有人翻譯了，之前的確存在同一部作品有兩個人翻譯的版本），從而阻礙翻譯者的熱情，破壞社區的成長。

===================================================

3月18日更新

海外的中文網路小說市場的蓬勃發展已經造就了現在的以及未來潛在的巨大利益。

前期為了愛好及分享精神而蓬勃發展的中文網路小說翻譯社區也面臨利益的考驗。

起點正式進軍國際市場，意味著版權授權問題成為未來這一社區發展的關鍵影響因素。

Wuxiaworld和Gravitytales之間發生的事件可能只是一個開端。

有相當部分人對於起點的擴張感到憂慮，擔心會對社區的發展起到反效果。

===================================================

3月21日更新

Wuxiaworld最近翻譯了一篇關於中國關於中國網路小說在歐美流行的文章。

南方周末 - 「願『道』與你同在」中國網路文學闖入英文世界

裡面南方周末採訪了閱文集團總裁吳文輝。

裡面提到，閱文集團並不打算馬上摘桃子，起點國際站僅僅作為一個接待外國語用戶的平台，準備讓子彈再飛一段時間（最終還是要摘桃子啊）。

而最近Gravitytales為啥突然大量翻譯者帶著作品出走，很大的因素是Gravitytales更改了運營方式等。

===================================================

4月19日更新

起點開放了Webnovel網站的安卓客戶端測試版，起點也明顯意識到，真正的閱讀在於客戶端，應該抓緊做好網路小說的海外閱讀渠道工作。

同時，Wuxiaworld已經進入全球1000名排名網站內，網站也在全力改版，改善閱讀和訂閱體驗。就是不知道Wuxiaworld有沒有app的計劃。

至少，閱文集團在移動端領先一步。

===================================================

最近海外第二大中文網路小說網站gravitytales大量讀者出走第一大網站wuxiaworld，整個社區有著極大的變化，不少人認為起點也有著關係。

翻譯一下老外討論及想法：

主題：大家深吸口氣，一起來討論wuxiaworld，gravitytales和起點（Everyone take a deep breath and use this thread to talk about Wuxiaworld, Gravity, and Qidian ）

就我們所知，rwx在宣布和起點合作前，往返中國很多次進行商業談判。很明顯，他和起點做了相當深入的交流。這還是在起點完全沒有翻譯英文版的念頭的很久很久以前。我不記得Gravitytales有任何人試圖與起點接觸。所以，憑什麼起點會對Gravitytales有任何好感，會給予Gravitytales任何與wuxiaworld一樣的條款。

From what we know, Ren has been on numerous business trips before he announced the Qidian deals he made. It seems like he talked and negotiated a lot with Qidian. This was way way before Qidian even seemed to think about english translations. I don"t know if anyone from Gravity has ever tried to reach out to Qidian. So why do you think Qidian would treat Gravity favorably when they never tried to make things official in the first place? Without any sort of talks, negotiations, face to face meetings, or the like, why would Qidian give Gravity the same terms as WW? Obviously, this last bit is speculation since we don"t know whether Gravity tried to reach out or not. I just hope Gravity doesn"t die because I like them and like a lot of novels on their site. I mean, I think it"s unlikely for them to die but who knows.

我在擔心我們的社區。近幾年，我們的翻譯者們有著不錯的增長。眾籌的方式可以幫助個人翻譯者，起點國際的加入會幫助想要讀更多小說的讀者，翻譯體系會更聚合。我認為社區可能會遇到的問題在於，起點加入進來了，一些業餘翻譯者因為不清楚起點的想法，從而導致要麼選擇起點成為苦力的翻譯者，要麼不翻譯。而Gravitytales的方式是不逼迫翻譯者更新，可以看到一些翻譯者一月更個幾次，但是這個可以帶來大量的潛在翻譯者（也就是說，這種方式雖然對讀者體驗不好，但是，可以創造一個業餘翻譯者社區，對於翻譯者的社區文化有好處，同時可以沉澱出一個比較龐大的業餘翻譯者池子，對於發展有幫助）。

To be honest I"m just worried about the community. We had a nice growth of translators a few years back and we are at a good place for amount of translators where it"s not saturated and how the translators could move through. The problem is what I think might happen for the community, with Patreon helping the individual translators it"s good for them, with Qidian Int it"s good for those who want more to read and for a really cohesive growth of translation systems, the problem is where the community will go. It"s already noticeable since people can read from Patreon but discussions feel lacking because they are elsewhere (Patreon) so people don"t talk as much here because spoilers. With Qidian Int, we will see a movement towards automated translations with editors eventually where it"s not about the new entry translator who has to follow the basic pattern Qidian"s setup, so they have any issues they"ll come to the subreddit to rant which we"ve already began to seen.

Now to talk about Gravity, this is the website which doesn"t force it"s translators to push for chapters since they do it as a pass time. We can see it because of all the translations which have updates every month or so. With the backlash against them when they tried updating their website and the lack of information regarding what"s going on with Qidian, I feel like they will be at this place where potential translators will grow. Kind of like a testing ground to see if you can really do it but with the lack of acknowledgement from Qidian we might see new translators being forced to choose between WW or Qidian which means they either become a full time translator or they burn out which we"ve seen happen quite a few times.

This is just what my thoughts were, feel free to talk about anything if you want to discuss with me.

我就稍微說幾句。自從去年起版權就成為一個問題，wuxiaworld購買了他們翻譯書籍的版權，我就告訴CC（是誰）我們也會這麼做，一邊讓他的努力（翻譯）不白費。為了實現這個承諾，我覺得轉移至wuxiaworld會有幫助，因為rwx做了很多基礎工作。當然這不是唯一的原因。

絕對選項翻譯者（ CKtalonWuxiaworld ），搬家至wuxiaworld

I"ll just put a short note here. Since rights began becoming an issue last year, with WW buying the rights for their novels, I have been telling CC that I/we will eventually buy it, in some sense to really "reward" his efforts. In order to fulfill the promise that I"ve been promising him for a year, I feel that moving to WW will be most helpful to this happening, since ren has done a lot of the groundwork. Of course this isn"t the only reason, but just clearing the idea about CC.

TL;DR I want to fulfill a promise to CC.

有人總結了Gravitytales的創建者和擁有人GGP的一些回復。

幕後有很糟糕很糟糕的事情發生，根據GGP的最新回復，所謂的個人因素是撒謊，背後有著更加嚴重的事情發生著。

GGP對幕後事件的回復：

從我個人角度而言不知道怎麼說，我知道的也不多（沒有人們以為的多），就我知道的部分，目前已經在分裂社區，並讓大家感到氣憤、悲傷（起點你幹了什麼？）

There is something very, very wrong going on behind the scenes. Judging by the latest post and replies by GGP; it would seem that the front of "personal reasons" is basically an outright lie and there is something much more sinister going on in the background.

In regards to why there is so much secrecy he says:

From my side, I really don"t know what else I can say. I personally know a lot less than what people might think and honestly, the parts that I know do seem like they will divide the community and leave everyone, angry, sad or a combination of both. I"d rather keep those things to myself, especially when I don"t know the full picture and what I know is already so damaging.

當有人問起Gravitytales是否收到起點的攻擊，GGP沒有否認，他說：

Gravitytales面臨一個糟糕的境遇。有很多原因，部分是時機不對，或者有悖於Gravitytales的理念。但是，Gravitytales一定會繼續前進。

When someone asked if Gravity tales was being attacked by Qidian, did not deny it. But said;

Gravity Tales is hitting a rough spot. There"s more than a single reason and there are a lot of factors of which in some part, the timing of things just didn"t work out, or were twisted against Gravity Tales" favor. However, Gravity Tales will definitely keep moving forward.

部分我們不知道的事實，但是基本確認與起點有牽連。不然為何GGP迴避是或否的問題回答。

真正可怕的是，GGP隱晦的提示，正在發生的一些事情會分裂這個社區，他說：

我認為會有一場戰爭席捲整個社區，我不希望看到這個社區被分裂。謝謝你們的關心，Gravitytales會繼續堅持我們的理念，不管我們接下來選擇什麼樣的道路前進。

What these factors are we do not know, but this basically confirms that Qidian has some part of it. Because otherwise why would he dodge a question in which an easy "yes" or "no" would be suffice.

The real scary bits are where he hints that what has occurred would basically rip this community apart.

I honestly think that it will be an all out war inside the community. Not something that I want.
I do realize that there"s something going on behind the scene. I don"t want this community to be divided. Thank you for your concern. Gravity Tales will definitely still hold our key values in mind as we look to move forward regardless of whichever direction is choosen.

RWX站出來說，是所有的翻譯者主動聯繫他（而不是他聯繫翻譯者們）。當最近的事件將RWX的個人信譽推到風口浪尖，我選擇相信他，這是基於過去數年他在社區一貫的表現。

回到問題，為什麼翻譯者離開Gravitytales。這似乎並不是因為版權的原因，因為很早以前GGP就宣稱他們很早就展開了授權工作。同樣，我相信GGP。

因此，我感覺至少上面兩件事情中的一件事是真的。要麼是起點操控、欺騙或者混擾事實，以便讓翻譯者們轉移陣地（從Gravitytales到wuxiaworld），因為一個大的競爭者比兩個好對付。他們並不在乎這些，就是強迫他們離開。

但是很明顯起點需要對這一切負責。起點對於海外翻譯者這個社區很陌生，一個深藏幕後的，恐怖的公司，是這裡的老大。一個更可怕的事實是，某個翻譯者非常強烈的反對GGP的理念：

GGP 表達了網路分享的理念，表示雖然這一切面臨挑戰，被攻擊，但是Gravitytales還是會堅持分享小說這一理念。而某個翻譯者卻背後搞陰謀，在慫恿一些人離開Gravitytales。GGP也就這一事件做了回復：我知道理想是美好的，事實是殘酷的。

Ren has come out and said that all the translators approached him (not him poaching them) and while this whole affair puts his credibility into question I choose to believe in the integrity that he has shown in dealing with the community in the past years.

So it brings us to the question, why did the translators leave. It doesn"t seem to be an issue with the licensing rights as well since GGP claimed that they had been preparing for an authorization from an early time, and again while he may be lying, I choose to believe him for the same reasons as Ren.

So with all that has been said I feel like one of two things has happened. Either Qidian has led a small campaign to manipulate, lie, or otherwise confound the truth in attempts to get the translators to jump ship (since one large competitor is better than two). Or Maybe they didn"t need all of that and just strong armed them into leaving.

But it"s very easy to blame Qidian for all of this. They are new to the translator scene, a faceless, scary business corporation that can act as the big baddy in this. The much scarier truth is that one of the translators had heavy disagreements with GGP"s vision for the website;

Although along the way, this goal of sharing the novels has wavered, been tested (like right now), tempered and belittled, sharing novels with others has been and always will be the vision of Gravity Tales.

And the translator went behind GGP"s back and colluded with some others to try to get them to jump ship with him.

I know it seems an ugly conclusion to come to but:

I agree but unfortunately, I don"t think the truth is any prettier than the rumors.

Said by GGP in response to why he should divulge some information.

好吧，也許我是完全錯誤的，我希望我是錯誤的，因為我認為這個社區是我呆過的最真誠的社區。

但是，公開發表的事實是，所有人突然都在同一時刻有了類似的個人原因，因為這個個人原因搬移至Gravitytales最大的競爭對手Wuxiaworld那裡。你選擇相信哪個事實呢？我先要去看我的仙逆了。

Well anyway, it"s highly likely that I"m completely wrong and that all parties involve will feel an urge to strangle me for spreading even more rumors. I certainly do hope I"m wrong because I felt like this community was one of the most honest ones I"ve been in.

But anyway the official story is that they all coincidentally had personal reasons come up at the same time and those personal reasons coincidentally required them to move to- coincidentally- the website of Gravity Tales" biggest competitor. You decide what you want to believe, I need to go binge on Renegade Immortal.

哈，本來這事和我完全不沾邊的，知道起點國際還是前兩天室友有一句沒一句提起他在網上應聘了起點國際翻譯，事情到這兒還是和我沒什麼關係，今天臨睡前刷朋友圈看見室友發動態說成功了，可以給外國人寫網文了。嘿，這下我就試著去了解了一下起點，且順帶發現知乎這個問題，百度完後總體感覺起點還是不錯，閱文集團也還可以，中文小說能走出國外確實不是一件壞事。其實事情到這還是和我沒多大關係。

但是這時我就想起去年一直追 WW（武俠世界）里的一部玄幻小說是不是更新了呢。然後我就噔噔噔敲出 ww 的網址，看到了武俠世界 ww 5月22號新鮮出爐的 ww 對起點在一小說論壇上的帖子（Qidian』s post in the NovelUpdates Forum）公開回應。看到這然後我就有話說了！

公開聲明具體地址http://m.wuxiaworld.com/wuxiaworld-formal-response-to-qidian-licensing-issues-post/#more-139925

從這份聲明來看：

關於合作問題。

起點與武俠世界的合作已經破裂，至少在短期的今後合作是不可能了，倒是官司與摩擦估計不可避免，雖然二者在此前正式討論過合作並初步達成一些協議。但ww表示，在一兩個周前，ww拒絕起點對ww公司和翻譯的不合理條款後合作談判破裂。進而起點提出ww的一些版權問題"

what I can say is that the talks were extremely serious but in the end, due to Qidian imposing many clauses on both the translators and the company which I found unacceptable, our talks fell through roughly a week or two ago.

They picked the wrong arena and the wrong person to fight. As for their request for us to take down the eleven 『unauthorized』 translations, we will also fight them in any court of law on the grounds that we started these projects after they had given oral agreements for us to start them, and will demand compensation and damages from them if they wish for us to cease the translations

關於對武俠世界的影響問題。

起點的入駐國際計劃和舉措，已經給武俠世界帶來實質性的傷害和極大的威脅。原文提到這已關係到ww的生死存亡。

Dear readers, this might be the most important post I』ve made since the creation of Wuxiaworld, so I encourage you to read it closely, as it involves the very existence and longevity of this community.

As of May 22, 2017 the Yuewen Group, the parent group of Qidian International, sent a formal letter in Chinese making several copyright-related requests of us, and also posted on a libelous statement on NovelUpdates Forum.

此外聲明還揭示了起點的種種不地道，不誠信等問題，例如，企圖通過合作談判控制ww，進而以此為跳板進駐國際的目的失敗後，以鄙陋的強制的手段達到目的。起點否認與ww關於授權使用部分起點小說翻譯的口頭協議，並告侵權。ww指出，起點污衊ww私下接觸國外第二大中文網路小說網站Gravity的翻譯。（此前確實有一部分gravity網站翻譯流到ww）以及起點如何表面公開上宣稱希望支持翻譯們，私底下卻如何威逼利誘他們去起點自己的平台。

Qidian』s post in the NovelUpdates Forum is not only insulting and unprofessional, it is flat-out libelous in many areas and we will pursue them for that in a court of law. Their claim that we 『privately approached the translators of Gravity『 is a defamatory claim, designed to use Gravity』s reputation as their cat』s paw against Wuxiaworld in the public sphere; every single person who moved over from Gravity would tell you that we did not actively recruit any previous Gravity translators, and that they made a request of their own free will to join Wuxiaworld. You can ask them for yourselves.

But more on that later.There have been many cases during the past six months when I have been forced to 『bite my tongue』 as I』ve watched Qidian』s English representatives publicly proclaim how much they wish to support fan translators when in private they have taken a mix of threats and warnings to try and force translators to join their own platform

When we first negotiated with Qidian and reached an agreement of twenty novels, it was agreed that this would serve as the framework for future authorizations as well. It was made extremely clear to Qidian that Wuxiaworld does not select novels, it selects translators, which means that they bring the novels they are working on over to Wuxiaworld. In addition to the formal authorizations agreement, we had an oral commitment from Qidian stating that we can bring new novels onto the site, then bring them under the authorizations umbrella once every quarter. This was the reason why Wuxiaworld has brought in new Qidian novels over the past few months, and for Qidian to suddenly renege on its oral commitments to Wuxiaworld is not only dishonest, it causes serious damages to us and our reputation and we will be seeking appropriate compensation from them if we are indeed forced to halt translation of the new project.

In fact, Qidian actually encouraged us to try and obtain more of Gravity』s novels when they believed we would sign with them, which we declined because it was never our intention to 『go after』 Gravity, nor have we ever tried to poach Gravity』s translators. For them to publicly claim there was 『no notification』 and then call our actions 『unacceptable』 and 『out of business ethic』 is libelous, and we will take appropriate legal action as necessary.

本來正常的商業競爭與摩擦甚至排擠都可以接受，但如果 ww聲明屬實，那起點的做法就太粗暴可鄙，違背商業道德，甚至有違法嫌疑了，如果起點可以為了開拓或佔據國際市場使用這些手段，那麼在成為中國最大網路小說網站的路上她又做出過哪些見不得光的行為？干過多少傷天害理的勾當？到此彷彿資本的血腥味瞬間向四周瀰漫開來，一個行業尚如此，整個商業社會，整個人類社會，恐怕有過之而無不及吧？真真受傷害又是誰呢？被剝削的還不是最普通的老百姓！最無力的還不是最底層的人！啊，願世界多些溫柔少點傷害吧。

無所謂公平不公平，因為，起點掌握著版權！！這點和外國和咱們的的專利戰爭何其相似

起點國際版其實建立比較倉促，很多小說的翻譯是業餘的臨時的，本身不但跟新速度慢，質量低。而且隨時會斷更。而起點國際根本沒有相應的制度完善和跟蹤。導致一大批作品都處於一種混亂狀態。一部分甚至直接機翻了事。起點國際這種做法不但是不尊重作者也不尊重讀者。純粹為了佔據市場而盲目的一種行為。

走翻譯路子死路一條。

譯言網翻譯國外資訊因成本高，停擺，煎蛋網翻譯國外資訊成本低，但沒授權，侵權行為嚴重。wuxia world類似煎蛋網，被卸磨殺驢很正常。

更想知道的是，從哪裡可以自由註冊成英文作者。

起點的做法就太粗暴可鄙，違背商業道德，甚至有違法嫌疑。有的人是跪地生根了。

借用下問鼎四方的回復

老婆貢獻出來也可以緩解和鄰居老王的緊張關係，擱置爭議共同開發，集中優勢資源培養下一代嘛