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帶有共產主義腔調的英文是什麼樣子的?

知乎上關於共產中文腔調的問題 1.什麼是「共產中文腔調」? 2.以下這段話如何改寫才能在不改變原文語氣的情況下減少共產中文腔調?

蘇聯也有共產俄文腔調吧,朝鮮肯定有共產朝鮮語(太多了,標語到處是)。我想知道如果中國用英文作為官方語言的話,政府文件、報告會是什麼樣子呢?可以舉一個栗子嗎。


我覺前面只有 @鄭諾說的不錯,因為其是在英文語境進行分析,並有文本支撐。既然提到英語,中國官方翻譯的東西我覺得只能作為參考,應該更多研究英語為母語人寫出的東西。不過她把共曱產主義英文定義為學術腔的對面,未免有些偏頗,畢竟非學術腔的文章種類很多。而且在數理的學術論文中,推演的時候,會約定俗成的使用we作為主語,比如we assume。但我認為她的觀點很有啟發性。

首先,我想說「共曱產主義腔」確實是陳曱雲生造出來,我個人十分不喜歡這個人,因為其學術不端,政治為先。不過作為一個有幽默感的人,在這個層面上進行腦補,倒並非不可以。

那麼接下來我們可以以英語為母語人寫出來的文章進行分析,《cоmmunist manifesto》很好,英文版也是翻譯的,而且100多年前的東西,未免過時。

恰逢美共第三十次全國大會勝利召開(30th National Convention ),我就以美共(Home ? cpusa)發布的文本進行分析。

文本節選自Convention Greeting: Committees of Correspondence for Democracy Socialism,這是一篇致辭。

This is a most important political moment — for the working class movement and the struggle against austerity, war and climate disaster. We share a common understanding of the challenges that confront us and we have a common view of the essential ingredients for advance — the interwoven struggles of class, race and gender.

這是一個,對於工人階級運動,對抗貧窮、戰爭、氣候災難的抗爭,最重要的政治時刻。我們都了解我們所面對的共同挑戰,我們對於進步不可或缺的部分有著共同的看法——在階級、種族、性別方面的鬥爭交織在一起。

在詞頻分析中,整篇文章實詞最多的是

5 movement

5 common

4 working

4 unity

4 together

4 class

所以除了以上所謂語氣感情強烈以外,大量包含曱著,運動,共同,鬥爭,團結,階級等詞,這和cоmmunist的理念是一脈相承。有強烈的號召力,多用第一人稱主語,敘述主語包含聽眾,多強調曱起曱來對於某些事物的抗爭

當然,美共在美國混的一點兒也不好,已經走上了修/正/主/義的路線,語氣也上有所緩和,好在我們還有第四國際。

主要文本來自於World Socialist Web Site,這個個屬於第四國際官方新聞評論網站。雖然是托派,但參考一下沒壞處,好處是有多種語言,英文的也都有中文翻譯。

以下文本節選於此What Edward Snowden has revealed

Counterpoised to this financial aristocracy and its agencies stands the working class, with its powerful democratic traditions. There is a growing disquiet over the attack on democratic rights, linked to the anger over constant war abroad and social reaction within the United States.

These spying programs are carried out in secret precisely because the ruling class knows it lacks a broad base of support. As Snowden noted in his interview, the documents reveal that 「the NSA [and other government officials] routinely lie in response to congressional inquiries about the scope of surveillance in America.」 The liar-in-chief is Obama himself.

對立於金融貴曱族及其代曱理人的,是有強大民曱主傳統的工人階級。由於民曱主曱權利受到攻擊,人們的憂慮在不斷地增長,而這都是與不停在國外進行戰爭和美國國內的社會反曱動所激起的公曱憤相關的。

之所以要秘密進行窺探計劃,恰恰正是因為統曱治階級知道缺乏廣泛的支持基礎。斯諾登在採訪中指出,文件顯示了「國安局[和其他政曱府官員]在回答美國國會調查國內監控的範圍時,慣例地說謊。」 而說謊的總後台老板就是奧巴馬本人。

這裡我們可以看出明顯有春秋筆法,就是在用詞帶有褒貶含義,financial aristocracy 不用金融家和而用金融貴曱族,明顯就是暗指其世襲和對於社會的控制。不稱政曱府為government而是ruling class,這都非常有階級鬥爭色彩的詞語。

總結起來就是對自已人使用有號召力、團結色彩的詞語,整體上瀰漫著階級鬥爭色彩的春秋筆法。這或許就是「共曱產主義腔英文」。

最後再次表達對於政治挂帥式學術的不滿。


"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

"Ah, that is different!" said Boxer. "If Comrade Napoleon says it, it must be right."

"Do not imagine, comrades, that leadership is a pleasure. On the contrary, it is a deep and heavy responsibility. No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal."

—— Animal Farm by George Orwell

如需更多內容,請參見《1984》。

還找到一些:

「Hello, Comrade Li, what are you doing now?

(喂,李同志,你在做什麼?)

I am studying a quotation from Chairman Mao, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

(我正在學習毛主席的語錄「槍杆子裡面出政權」。)

That』s fine. Many foreign friends are studying this great teaching too.

(好極了,許多外國朋友也在學習這一偉大教導。)

Yes, they are fighting against imperialists』 revisionism and reactionaries of all countries. Victory belongs to the revolutionary people of the world.

(是的,他們正在同帝國主義進行鬥爭。勝利屬於世界革命人民。)」(張昌柱 張立中譯,1995)

『Long Life Chairman Mao! A Long Long Life to Chairman Mao!』


之前在China daily上看到的,永遠忘不掉:

當習大大發表完講話後,現場響起了the thunderous applause.........


共產語文的特點就是空話套話多,文字背後沒有實質。從這個意義上說,最近出現的英文例子是:

Material Design PDF


(分為「嚴肅的分割線」和「活潑的分割線」兩部分,各位可以根據自己逛知乎的目的酌情閱讀…)

這段話就是典型的「共產英文腔調」啊,來自《紅色警戒2》中的蘇軍動員兵:

"For the Union!"

"For Home Country!"

"For Mother Russia!!"

......

然後受到攻擊時:"Mommy......"

- - - - - - - 嚴肅的分割線 - - - - - - -

好啦,現在回答樓主的問題。

其實許多政府機關和公共事業單位都開設了英文版的官方網站,搜一搜便能略知一二。

比如這篇"Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying"s Remarks on Philippine President Aquino"s Response to the Hong Kong Hostage Incident",來自外交部官方網站;

中文對照:《外交部就菲律賓總統阿基諾涉香港人質事件言論答記者問》,人民網。

這篇為今天(2013年11月9日)中央政府官方網站的頭條新聞:Journalists value credibility amid new media challenges. 相應的中文版稿件為《中國「無冕之王」在反思與期待中迎來記者節》。

另附劉雲山書記的講話全文:

《劉雲山:新聞工作以導向為靈魂以真實為生命以人民為中心》

(麻煩大家點擊鏈接查看吧,這幾段總過不了審,儘管不該過審的應該在後面才對啊…)

儘管可能性有限,但是假設英語真的成為中國的官方語言的話,政府文件的寫作風格應該和這也差不多,不會有什麼明顯的違和感,畢竟撰寫這些文件的人接受過的英語教學。

- - - - - - - 活潑的分割線 - - - - - - -

若是中國鐵了心要全面推行英文普及的話,可能在一些接地氣的場合,比如標語、口號之類的,會冒出一些「有特色的」英文。原因嘛,一是老百姓們的英文水平有限,過難的詞語無法理解;二是這些工作一般會交給基層政府來做,而各地發展水平參差不齊,難免有一些地方會鬧笑話。連超市裡都會出現 "Fuck Good" 不是?

下面「大膽假設」幾個例子:

建設精神文明,更新生育觀念:

Construct a Spiritual Civilization, Replace the Old Concept of Giving Birth /

Build Spirit Culture, New Give Birth Concept

控制人口增長,促進社會進步:

Controlling Population Growth Promotes Social Development

Control Population Increase, Promote Social Progress

教育是強國之本:

Education Is the Foundation upon Which a Powerful Nation Is Built

Education Is a Powerful Country"s Fundation

(以上三個例子來自何偉的《江城》,下面自己編幾個:

大力弘揚艱苦奮鬥精神:

Big Push Hard Trying Spirit.

高舉中國特色社會主義偉大旗幟:

Erecting Chinese Socialism"s Well-Hung Flag in a Very Porn Way.

實施城中村改造是一項造福百姓的民心工程:

Reforming Countries inside Cities is a Popular Project for People who are Lucky Dogs.

多難興邦:

Less Peace Equals More Powerful Force.

生男生女一樣好,女兒也是傳後人:

If You"re Thinking About Your Baby"s Baby, It Doesn"t Matter if Yours is Boy or Girl.

只生一個好:

One Baby is a Good Baby.

千年學府 百年師範:

One School is a Good School.

綜上所述…還是堅持漢語的基本地位一百年不動搖吧。


Black Eyed peas - Where is the love

瞿秋白 -《國際歌》

People killin

起來饑寒交迫的奴隸

People dyin

起來全世界受苦的人

Children hurt and women cryin

滿腔的熱血已經沸騰

Will you practice what you preach

要為真理而鬥爭

Or would you turn the other cheek

舊世界打個落花流水

Father father father, help us

奴隸們起來,起來!

Send some guidance from above

這是最後的鬥爭

These people got me got me questionin

團結起來到明天

Where is the love?

英特納雄奈爾

the love

就一定要實現


too young too simple sometimes naive


"Gentlemen, this is a test.Moments such as these are matters of faith.

To fail is to invite doubt into everything we believe...everything we have fought for.

Doubt will plunge this country back

into chaos, and I will not let that happen.

Gentlemen, I want this terrorist found and I want him to understand what terror really means.

England prevails.

England prevails. "

《v字仇殺隊》


我反對一下目前排名第一的答案。恰好今天在做課堂reading讀到Marx看到the Manifesto。

我並不知道「共產主義腔調的英文」是否存在,雖然我傾向於認為它並不存在;但是即便存在,重點也不會是主被動語態的問題。因為如這篇英文寫作的語氣問題 - 聽雨庭院工作室謝喵圖書館 - 知乎專欄中提到的,這個語法修辭是寫文章的立場問題,而不是「階級屬性」的問題。

the manifesto里的確有很多激烈的用詞和用法但是a)馬克思本人就是一個angry的人b)那是manifesto啊

如果這個所謂的共產主義腔調存在,我更認同是一些對於「運動」「鬥爭」「階級」之類詞的大量使用。

因為如此「強硬」的口吻,很多人的文章中都會有:

Whether they like it or not, their productions will be limited by the amount of their previous accumulation, and, that being given, it will be proportional to their energy, their skill, the perfection of their machinery, and their judicious use of the advantages of combined labour. Whether they like it or not, a double quantity of labour will not raise, on the same land, a double quantity of food, unless some improvement takes place in the processes of cultivation. Whether they like it or not, the unproductive expenditure of individuals will pro tanto tend to impoverish the community, and only their productive expenditure will enrich it. The opinions, or the wishes, which may exist on these different matters, do not control the things themselves. We cannot, indeed, foresee to what extent the modes of production may be altered, or the productiveness of labour increased, by future extensions of our knowledge of the laws of nature, suggesting new processes of industry of which we have at present no conception. But howsoever we may succeed in making for ourselves more space within the limits set by the constitution of things, we know that there must be limits. We cannot alter the ultimate properties either of matter or mind, but can only employ those properties more or less successfully, to bring about the events in which we are interested.

上文的whether they like it or not後面是不是特別適合接一些如「他們的統治地位一定會被動搖」?

你猜這是誰寫的?

再來一段,這裡「我們」只有兩條路可選哦:

We desire both to be respectable and to be respected. We dread both to be contemptible and to be contemned. But, upon coming into the world, we soon find that wisdom and virtue are by no means the sole objects of respect; nor vice and folly, of contempt. We frequently see the respectful attentions of the world more strongly directed towards the rich and the great, than towards the wise and the virtuous. We see frequently the vices and follies of the powerful much less despised than the poverty and weakness of the innocent. To deserve, to acquire, and to enjoy the respect and admiration of mankind, are the great objects of ambition and emulation. Two different roads are presented to us, equally leading to the attainment of this so much desired object; the one, by the study of wisdom and the practice of virtue; the other, by the acquisition of wealth and greatness. Two different characters are presented to our emulation; the one, of proud ambition and ostentatious avidity. the other, of humble modesty and equitable justice. Two different models, two different pictures, are held out to us, according to which we may fashion our own character and behaviour; the one more gaudy and glittering in its colouring; the other more correct and more exquisitely beautiful in its outline: the one forcing itself upon the notice of every wandering eye; the other, attracting the attention of scarce any body but the most studious and careful observer. They are the wise and the virtuous chiefly, a select, though, I am afraid, but a small party, who are the real and steady admirers of wisdom and virtue. The great mob of mankind are the admirers and worshippers, and, what may seem more extraordinary, most frequently the disinterested admirers and worshippers, of wealth and greatness.

這段對強權和財富的控訴是不是更加符合「共產主義」?你再猜猜這是誰寫的?

再來個用主動用更多的另一篇類似於manifesto的東西(這段直接拷貝自wiki):

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

如果前面那句不用We hold ... to be self-evident的話,難道還要說Well we think it might be true that么?

如果這些都是「共產主義」的話。


沒有主謂賓只有定狀補。


紅警3 來自百度 翻譯有個人修改

動員兵:

Conscript Training Finished紅小兵訓練結束

They』re shooting at me! 階級敵人向我進攻!

Dirty dogs! 資本主義污染的狗!

I fight bravely! 我在英勇得作戰!

Together comrades! 同志們!團結就是力量

They have guns too!? 敵人也有槍?

We』re shooting the enemy! 我們射向敵人!

Just like training video! 就像教學影片里一樣!

Atas Mokami! 毛文.

I don』t like this anymore! 我不玩了!

選擇

Ready to Fight for Union. 時刻準備著,為社會主義聯盟而戰鬥。

We serve glorious union. 為聯盟,服務。

Is it Time? 到時間(作戰)了么?

This is nice clothes! 這軍大衣不錯啊。

I wasn』t doing anything. 我什麼都沒做。

Am I supposed to do something? 我是不是應該做點啥?

Conscript here. 紅小兵在此

Conscript excited to fight. 紅小兵,等不及要戰鬥!

I make premier proud. 今天我以蘇聯為自豪,明天總理以為我驕傲!

Show me what to do 告訴我做什麼

Huh? Me? 啊? 我?

Here I am 我在這裡

移動

Oh OK

Yes Sir

Moving

As fast as I can 能多塊就多快

I can do 我行

Have we won yet? 我們還沒打贏?

Of course 當然了

Oh, ok

Whatever you say 凡是總理的指示,我們都始終不渝地遵循。

I go

攻擊

Firing weapon! 開火!

Finally! The real thing! 終於等到真格的了!

Premire will be very proud! 總理為我驕傲!

Finally! Real battle! 終於來了! 真的打仗了!

We march to victory! 我們大步邁向勝利!

Who』s with me? 誰跟我?

Now? 現在?

It』s them! Field promotion here I come! 戰場陞官我來了!

For mother Russia! 為了母親俄羅斯!

Attack! 攻擊!

For the Union 為了聯盟!

Kill them like watermelon 像西瓜一樣打得他們粉身碎骨!

Hula! 萬歲!(燃燒瓶飛行的聲音)

Vodakack! (俄羅斯白酒+攻擊兩個單詞合併)

Catch this! 接著!

Throw the fire! 扔火焰!

They will burn! 他們會著火!

進入建築

Ahh, thank you 啊,謝謝.

Good, let』s take a break 不錯,來歇一歇

What』s in here 這裡有啥?

It looks dark 裡面好像很黑

They have television in there? 那裡有電視嗎?

改下來,真心覺得共產風用漢語帶感多了


例如,「Communist International"(共產主義者國際組織)這個詞能讓人聯想到一副由全人類友愛、紅旗、街壘、卡爾?馬克思和巴黎公社所組成的畫面;另一方面,「Comintern」一詞僅代表一個結構嚴密的組織和一種明確的教義,它指的是像一張椅子或一張桌子這樣一聽即明、別無他義的東西。「Comintern」這個詞能被幾乎不假思索地說出來,「Communist International」則能讓人在說出時,必定有至少是片刻的躊躇。

——喬治?奧威爾,《1984》 新話的原則


請見China Daily


前兩張是共產黨

最後一張是腔調

圖片截自wiki art and culture app

還是母語的代入感比較強……


中國日報英文版--chinadaily

新華日報http://--xinhua.com english version

基本上政府媒體的網站基本都有英文版,和中文腔調如出一轍,其實抨擊,批評是最簡單的說話方式,不需要專業人士。所以中國從來沒有專業的媒體。因為媒體不公開,全都是政府主控。像是騰訊,網易,百度,搜狐,新浪都是沒有新聞資質的,全都是轉載政府媒體的新聞。所以他們基本上破罐破摔。


最近大概是要受這種英文折磨了

這是一小部分考試內容,節選自朝廷工作報告,無論中文,還是英文,十足最炫共產風 還透露出淡淡的改(修)革(正)風,完美體現了聖朝的以中特治天下

當然,為什麼要我這種學渣背這種內容?我的痛苦是一萬支duck mouth筆(偽洋文)也表達不出的,我還是接著看吧....


這樣的:

「One trembles with disgust and repulsion at the sight of these cold, unfeeling beings. The Judas Slánsky』, these alien elements, this rabble with its shady past. Only cynical Zionists, without a fatherland . . . clever cosmopolitans who have sold out to the dollar. They were guided in this criminal activity by Zionism, bourgeois Jewish nationalism, racial chauvinism.」

Prague Communist daily Rudé Právo


英特納雄耐爾就一定要實現。


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