如何評價當前左翼鄙視主流現代經濟學的風氣?

目前的網路左圈,有很多人都對現代主流經濟學嗤之以鼻。可是在馬克思主義政治經濟學中也有使用主流經濟學做研究的,比如羅默的理性選擇馬克思主義,新古典模型也是可以為社會主義進行辯護的(參見:新古典經濟學可以為資本主義辯護嗎?經濟學的研究可以避免意識形態的影響而保持客觀性嗎?--兼記一場爭論 - 知乎專欄)。

而部分左翼朋友在不了解現代經濟學發展,對政治經濟學的學習也只停留在第二國際帝國主義政治經濟學階段(盧森堡、考茨基、列寧)而無視後來的發展的情況下盲目拒斥主流經濟學理論,甚至拒斥後來的政治經濟學的發展,這是否是理性的?如何評價這種風氣呢?


這個問題真讓人感到悲哀,想幾十年前,我各社會主義經濟學派也佔了世界經濟學界半壁江山,誰敢言社會主義經濟學不是主流之一,而今。。。也罷,社會主義陣營亡了,沒媽的社會主義經濟學像根草啊。

正如題主所言,最讓人傷心的並不是資本主義經濟學佔主流,而是左派們,當今絕不部分網左除了噴自由派,對馬主義經濟學的了解比很多右派還少。一群網左,讀過倫敦手稿和帝國主義論的比例佔多少?資本論略讀過的又有多少。像題主說的,貴乎里的網左與網馬對第二國際各派經濟學的大概內容有了解便可以當左圈裡的文化人了!大概知道到第二國際的考茨基的超帝國主義論和土地問題、希法亭的金融資本論、盧森堡的資本積累論、普列漢諾夫的生產力論等等都是什麼大致上的內容,能討論下他們包括列寧在內的經濟理論。再知道點托派的托洛茨基和普列奧普拉任斯基的經濟觀點,讀過布哈林的《過渡時期經濟學》,再讀過斯大林的《蘇聯社會主義經濟問題》更好,這些知識儲備足夠在支乎左圈談笑風生了。

然而二戰後,社會主義陣營的經濟學理論,除了身為中國人肯定知道的毛鄧等中國經濟建設的理論和"斯大林體制",再有些世界現代史較好的為數不多的人,因為毛時期的各種批判能知道點南斯拉夫經濟體制的卡德爾和馬克西莫維奇,因為鄧時期的吹捧能知道點匈牙利改革浪潮中的卡達爾和科爾內外,對社會主義陣營的經濟學,大量左派又了解多少?

不服?就貴乎的左派們,別看可以撕經濟問題撕的不亦樂乎,對資本主義經濟學家和學派的名字背一串,什麼哈耶克、凱恩斯、弗里德曼、芒德爾等等,又有多少知道社會主義陣營的經濟學家與學派如蘭格的計劃市場、卡萊茨基的社會主義增長模型、錫克的經濟改革嘗試、布魯斯和考斯塔的計劃控制的社會主義市場經濟理論、蘇聯的利別爾曼改革派、西伯利亞學派、數理經濟學派。。。?

左派們可以興高采烈的撕資本主義經濟學,可很多人對社會主義經濟學了解的又有多少?真的,左派對社會主義經濟學的了解,未必比自由派多。

這麼尷尬的事實,社會主義經濟學今天的左派們卻根本發揚不了,還怎麼當主流?

沒錯,社會主義經濟同樣需要數理分析、數學建模、一般均衡理論。馬克思老師研究經濟,同樣有很深的數學功底和對資本主義經濟學很深的研究,馬克思主義經濟學的基石,同樣來源於資本主義經濟學發明的勞動價值論和剩餘價值論,馬老師和恩老師正是一輩子對資本主義的學習與研究,才真正弄通了資本主義,才有了《資本論》和用來開創新時代的馬克思主義。

題主問的很好,左棍們不去學習卻知道鄙夷,怎麼成大事?毛主席講,學習知識需要誠實和謙遜的態度,來不得半點虛偽和驕傲。而大量網左從馬列那裡似乎只學到了批判的本領,而且他們似乎同時還忘了,馬列各位老師批判別人的時候,同時也在吸收和學習別人,人家不是單純批判而是"批判的繼承"。

左派們?馬老師若在天有靈,我猜肯定不承認這群不肖子弟是他學生呢。。。


刷了一圈答案,突然想就「主流」倆字吐個槽。。。你們大家得就「主流」是啥達成共識吧,看你們聊天太累了。

還有,「主流現代經濟學」這詞完全把節奏帶歪了吧,主流是主流,現代是現代。演化經濟學、新制度經濟學、後凱恩斯學派是現代了吧,但這些如果你們要說這些也是主流,那我很好奇你們的「主流」啊。。。

還有,羅默用的很多研究方法確實就是現代經濟學的那些,但是這麼說他就成「主流」了,是不是就一種硬點的意思啊。。。

最後,還是正經回答一下問題吧,我暫且把所謂的「主流現代經濟學」理解成新古典那一套。我個人認為,左圈有這風氣也不奇怪,畢竟馬克思不只一次說過「庸俗經濟學」這個詞,反正導師已經欽定了,大家也就愉快地決定了:不學了。

但這樣怎麼行啊(ノ=Д=)ノ┻━┻馬同學說「庸俗」,說的是他們關注表象不研究背後的實質,把一些歷史性的東西永恆化,熱愛給資本主義當洗腳婢(例如工資是由勞動要素的邊際報酬這種技術原因決定的)。知乎的左圈大佬不是要去批判這些謬論嗎,那求求大佬們能不能先看看這些經濟學家,人家的觀點和論述結構是啥,然後再去找他們理論的漏洞啊。要說只是批評一般流行的錯誤觀念的話,那好歹最起碼也看看微觀經濟學的教材是不是?

當然,反過來的,要批評馬克思的政治經濟學批判,好歹找本政治經濟學教材看看吧。難道真的是看到政治經濟學教材上連個偏導數都沒有,就可以天天在知乎上提那些連使用價值(根據不同人,會表述為「社會財富」、「財富」等不同詞語)和價值都分不清楚的題目嗎?天天看到tl上政治經濟學話題底下都是這些的題目,我也很絕望啊!

最後就是,請各位左圈的同學們還是多看書,對現代經濟學,要認真學習其研究方法,實在看不進去就去找公開課啊。如果說是大佬的話,那完全可以找些更前沿的東西看啊,給我們這些渣渣寫點乾貨啊。。。天天撕來撕去,還不是帽子大戰,有意思嘛。。。


這個問題下的回答真是讓我大跌眼鏡~雖然我個人對當今的一些經濟學研究(以及其所基於的一些假設)也頗有微詞,我也知道很多經濟學文章是作者寫出來為了找工作、評職稱用,學術價值會有折扣,但是我自以為這些好歹還是在學術上的爭論,而不是像這個問題下面的回答一樣幾乎個個都是屁股決定腦袋。

一堆各種嘲諷「主流經濟學」的,我很想知道這些人哪怕看過一篇國際經濟學期刊上發表的論文?什麼叫主流經濟學?為什麼馬克思經濟學對應的是主流經濟學?有人能先回答了這些問題再扯其他的嗎?豎個空氣靶子打得不亦樂乎,也是難為這些人了。經濟學發展到今天,體系之龐大內容之繁雜,各種各樣的觀點與方法論之間的競爭也非常激烈,我很想知道知乎大神們是怎麼把這麼大的一個體系總結成一個詞「主流經濟學」然後去批判一番的,地圖炮打慣了?

另外,不客氣的說,雖然當今經濟學研究確實有圈子、山頭的說法,不過只要一篇文章論據嚴謹、數據靠譜、表達清晰,總會找到接受發表的期刊的。知乎某些人扯馬經說來說去就是那一套資本滾雪球+工人剩餘價值被壓榨=周期性經濟危機的玩意兒,這麼清晰明了的理論,很容易建立一個數學模型然後去嚴格論證你的結論成立條件啊,只不過知乎上這批馬經的擁躉們有這個把事情講清楚的能力嗎?或者學那個什麼安生寫點破書出來收智商稅也是個事兒啊?除了天天立個空氣靶子噴人,把自己毫無科學素養這個弱點到處暴露給人看,你們還會幹啥?


新古典作為一個研究框架還好說,作為一個理論它是早就被前沿研究取代了的、過時的東西,不知道豎了這箇舊靶子想批判些什麼……

作為研究框架,新古典就是抽象的、簡化的,是必然有缺陷的、不得不在某些方面妥協的技術手段。誠然這個框架的分析不盡完善,但人們可以通過進一步的分析與批判進行修補和再挖掘,因此這些研究成果不是沒有意義的。

實際上這就是現代經濟學乾的工作,不斷地去鞭新古典這些老理論的屍,把血肉骨頭都鞭出來為新理論奠基。不知道某些人就非要嚷嚷著把這些幾十年前的「死人」再打死一遍幹什麼?人早就「死」透了,用不著你再瞎補幾刀……

你的框架比新古典有效嗎?你的框架有新古典的衍生這麼豐富嗎?如果沒有,為什麼不問問神奇海……阿不,試試先用新古典做個基礎,然後通過批判進行修正呢?老馬的框架就算有用,它也是個很陳舊的框架;它需要與前沿理論結合,進行批判、改進和再批判才能發揮作用。否則光是一味批判,連個框架基礎都建不起來,又有什麼用呢?曲線救國阿,同志們……(雖然這個詞相當貶義hhh)

不止是當前左翼,國內學術界本身就對羅默這樣的西馬學術研究與批判不感冒;主要焦點還是在為意識形態論證作服務,就更不要強求經濟學學生或者普羅大眾了。不是說這樣不對,畢竟意識形態研究是很關鍵,否則路走歪人心就散了。但國內經濟理論研究這塊都著實差了人西馬一大截,又拿什麼去挑戰現代經濟學?

當然我能理解,就像馬經是為老馬的政治理論服務一樣,有些人舞著「新古典」的大劍,也確實是意在某些意識形態鬥爭上。打擊這種掛羊頭賣狗肉的傢伙,我倒沒什麼意見——何為手段何為目的,還是得搞搞清楚的。但好好向西馬學習學習,把基礎理論框架做做實,再反過來為意識形態領域進行支撐,對其發展也絕對是不可或缺的。這叫師夷長技以制夷阿……

批判?可以,但請給一個紮實而有效的研究框架先,比方說把博弈論或者行為理論引入到老馬的框架里去;只要你的框架更為紮實有效,經濟學家簞食壺漿以迎共產主義降臨,趕緊學來發paper——本來這個群體就是很沒節操的。否則你批判再多,也都只是些陳芝麻爛谷,產不出新成果來。知乎上的這些「批判」,在理論框架的基礎上就從來沒超過馬恩,更不要說西馬了。有些寫出來的東西,怕是老馬看了都想打人hhh。

再來打個比方:假設你一研究量子理論的,不好好鑽研自己的研究領域,或者試著把它與經典模型聯繫起來;而是相對論一有什麼進展,你就跳出來說「這不量子」……難道不顯得找抽嗎?西馬好歹致力於達成半經典模型,你也配嘲笑人家不夠根正苗紅?

馬克思主義經濟學,不可以卒於1883年。

關評,不撕。


馬克思主義政治經濟學由於大家讀書時都學過,定性分析多,學習門檻低,理解比較容易,引來大量非專業的愛好者。

現代經濟學由於需要大量數學模型和數學工具,較高的學習門檻,研究難度遠大於馬克思主義政治經濟學,沒法敲著鍵盤指點江山,自然會引起那些微積分都學不好的左翼民科的反感。


謝題主邀。

首先關於主流西方經濟學和馬克思主義誰對誰錯,是否可能一方吸收另一方的背景問題,太高深我不懂。我的能力最多只能試錯,能學出開鎮痛葯和癥狀描述的水平我就燒高香了。

然後關於問題本身,很多左派之所以鄙視經濟學,在我看來很大程度上其實倒不完全是因為安生之流所說的「西方經濟學不承認現實反對公有制跪舔穩拿費拉不堪」,更多地是因為他們太蠢。

比如某張大師就是一個很好的例子。

你放了這麼一大溜子屁,卻忽略了一個最最基本的問題。

「另一方面,根據新古典邊際生產力分配論,利息率(或利潤率)由資本的邊際產品決定」

在西方經濟學當中:

利息率和利潤率什麼時候變成一回事了??

利息率和利潤率什麼時候變成一回事了??

利息率和利潤率什麼時候變成一回事了??

一個是interest rate,一個profit

一個的符號是π,另一個你自己說了是r

這是學過初級微觀並且高考英語及格水平以上的大一學生都不可能犯的愚蠢錯誤。

別跟我說什麼這是細枝末節,「外源毒性基因」六個字一出,直接葬送了言凌在生物醫藥板塊的風頭,官司就算打到諾貝爾醫學和生理學獎得主面前照樣該他輸。

楊文理說得好,四則運算拎不清的人是沒資格捯飭微積分的。

當然你可以宣稱微積分的含義與極限和無窮大無窮小都無關,只是一加一等於三而已,不過這樣的話你和凡偉或樓下的鄭莊公(沒錯這位自詡「反忽防悠」的左juan新星和凡先生是嚴格同類,請必應「掀開愛因斯坦的蓋頭來」,有特大驚喜)有一毛錢區別?


我的這個回答有些不對題,而且很有些尖刻,請讀者諒解。
簡單地說,我認為那些批判主流經濟學的左翼兼具三個特點:懶惰,愚蠢,狂妄。
他們自認為通過「學習」馬克思主義,掌握了世界的「本質」,並以此批判主流經濟學「庸俗」,「膚淺」,甚至是別有用心的,是陰謀。然而他們真正多了解「主流經濟學」呢?恐怕是沒多少。當代經濟學固然有著眾多的學派,難分到底誰是主流,但是問題分析的範式是類似的,尤其是微觀領域以博弈論和一般均衡為基礎搭建的理論框架,已經算是比較「公理化」了,可以說,在掌握這套框架以前,對「主流經濟學」是根本沒有發言權的。一般而言,大概只有經濟學類的博士,才能算是入了門,掌握了這套範式,這樣的人,在「左翼」之中,又有多少呢?
既然對整套體系了解淺薄,卻又妄言批判,恨不能說整個體系都是毒草,這不是狂妄,又是什麼呢?
另一方面,左翼自認為掌握了「屠龍術」,自視高人一等之餘,又時時刻刻試圖以之「屠龍」,罔顧具體問題的背景和內涵,結果一次次地用宏大敘事代替具體分析,以口號代替思辨,以「階級鬥爭」代替模型辨析,把空洞的說教當成現實的教條,把虛無縹緲的概念當成是包治百病的靈丹妙藥,這難道不愚蠢嗎?更糟糕的是,恰恰因為他們理論的空洞,甚至就算有人按照他們的理論實踐了,失敗以後,他們也能在一邊指手畫腳,彷彿是因為沒有聽從他們的指導才失敗的。
最後,左翼難道真的不知道馬克思主義最講究實事求是,具體問題要具體分析?難道不知道馬克思主義經濟學有著數量眾多的研究成果?在批評他人之餘,難道沒想過對批評的對象稍稍增進一下了解?他們並不肯去做,難道不是懶惰?

實際上,他們的懶惰,愚蠢和狂妄是三位一體的。
因為他們懶惰,他們的了解淺嘗輒止,只能使用宏大敘事,是為愚蠢;
因為他們愚蠢,他們自以為自己掌握了絕對真理 是為狂妄;
因為他們自以為掌握了真理,所以不需要對其他東西增進了解,是以更加懶惰。

不管是哪個學派的「主流經濟學」,他們研究的目的,都是更好地理解現代人類社會,並試圖在理解的基礎上解決一些現實問題,而唯獨那些所謂的左翼,從一開始就想著把整個社會徹底掀翻,按照他們(過於簡略的)藍圖重新搭建。

時常看到左翼批判歷史上的「清流」,他們的思想卻恰恰和清流如出一轍,最喜歡那種無所不包的「絕對真理」,用道德批評代替事實辨析,用政治立場之爭取代事實爭論,最喜歡袖手空談,實際上百無一用。

另外還有一點聲明。

知乎上奇形怪狀的所謂左翼越來越多了,大部分卻帶著強烈的國家主義和民族主義傾向,有時候還披著馬克思主義的皮,有時候連這層皮也不肯披,我這個回答,各位讀者請不要太急於對號入座——我並沒有針對任何一個人。如果感到收到了傷害,儘管罵我吧,反正我也打算離開知乎了。


謝邀。

我曾經在一篇過往回答裡面提過這個問題:JoJo王頎:如何看待打賞網路主播的社會現象?

但只是稍微提了一下我個人對於西方經濟學的看法,在這裡可以多說一些。

另外咱只是一個普通經濟學學士,也很久沒從事本專業的東西了,所以也只是一點個人的觀點而已。

為什麼左翼有一種「鄙視主流現代經濟學」的風氣?

因為西方經濟學的確是應該被鄙視的,他論述了一堆東西,只能解決部分的問題。而這「部分」的問題是什麼呢?就是商品方面的問題。

換言之,你除了能解決物質方面的問題之外,你解決不了其他的問題。甚至從某種程度來說,他為了過分追求物質方面的問題,反過來倒破壞人類其他方面的問題了。

譬如說我需要各種各樣的新鞋子;你設一個供給曲線,設一個需求曲線。完美。

譬如說我需要幾套書籍,各個書籍的思想深度和側重點要有所不同;他馬上就懵逼了。

譬如說我需要一個女朋友。

(答主:咱就喜歡這一個人,其他的人都不行~)

(經濟學家:喵喵喵喵?)

所以說「西方經濟學」這個東西,他好不好用呢?——有些地方的確非常好用。

比如說我這個過往回答:編造段子的知乎用戶能迅速漲粉,是否標誌著知乎尬段時代的開啟?

你不能否認,在可量化的某些領域內,他的確是好用的。

但是問題是你不能說這玩意兒在一個領域內是好用的,他就放在所有的地方都是好用的。

西方經濟學最大的問題是什麼?——他認為自己在一切場合都是好用的,並且總是試圖把一切東西都搞成可量化的。而誰都不能否認的是,現實世界並不是一切都可量化的,而且也不是所有人類都是理性的。

我也不想說什麼「政經」,「剝削」這種大道理。我就問你一個問題:你會拿你幾個爸爸換你一個媽媽?你又會拿幾個老師換你一個同學?人的很多東西,思想方面,情感方面,經歷方面,這些東西是無法被量化的。

你的初戀女友給你寫了一封情書,你會用多少錢把這封情書賣掉?

你可以「理性」把你的這封情書賣掉,那你怎麼把你和你初戀女友之間的「回憶」賣掉?

你怎麼拿這段戀愛的「回憶」,來換幾個你和哥們兒之間聚餐的「回憶」

你從這個角度去衡量的話,你會發現在這方面,西方經濟學簡直沒有個卵用。

我為什麼很推崇馬克思主義政治經濟學?——因為他說到了實質的問題上。貨幣只是我們日常生活中一個重要的部分,但絕對不是最重要的部分。我們生活最重要的部分是時間,而從來不是貨幣。貨幣對我們的人生而言,只是一個次要的輔助手段而已。

「回憶」,「經歷」是什麼?是經過的時間

有些人可能會說,「我有錢,可以給我帶來美好的回憶」。那是完全的謬誤了,你單純從貨幣的角度是無法獲得「回憶」的,貨幣在你獲得「回憶」的過程中只是一個催化劑的作用。他的實質,還是你經過的時間

一秒鐘都不給你,讓你在這「零秒鐘」之內創造一個「回憶」;你怎麼創造?

這就是一個問題了:

假設你已經知道一輩子能掙50萬。現在有一個按鈕,你按下去馬上就會死,但是你能立刻獲得500萬。

——你按不按?

我感覺除了「貪財如命」或者「無藥可救」的不正常人類,一般人都不按這個按鈕的。

但是問題是西方經濟學家們就是慫恿你去按這個按鈕。因為在他們眼裡,人如何度過時間從來不是最重要的,觸手可及的利益才是最重要的。這也就是為什麼很多「左翼」覺得西方經濟學是很「邪惡」的一件事情了,他在逼著你按這個按鈕。

有的人可能會抬杠說,500萬我也許會按。但事實上,只要這個價碼多於50萬,譬如說給你51萬,甚至50萬零1元錢,你也是應該按的。就馬克思的觀點來看,資本家就是在逼著工人們不停的按這個按鈕,而且按這個按鈕的大筆的收入全都收到資本家的腰包里了。

我拿計算機舉一個同樣的例子。譬如說你是一個瘋狂科學家,你突然有一天發明了一種超級計算機。這種計算機能滿足人類所有的需要,但是唯一的缺點是,這個計算機必須要用活生生的人腦作為計算動力。你計算了一下,你需要屠殺掉這世界上97%的人,提取他們的大腦並且讓他們晝夜不停的計算;你才能做出來這麼一台強悍無比的計算機,為世界上另外3%的人服務,讓他們過上天堂一般的生活。

那我們就可以很顯然的看出來,這個科學家簡直就是個瘋子。除了「反人性」之外,我想不出其他的辭彙來形容他了——但是你看我們的經濟學家,他們也在做同樣的事情啊!我們可以說那個瘋狂科學家追求的是「計算能力」,我們的經濟學家追求的是「效益」,「貨幣」或者其他的什麼東西。

那我們的「人」呢?我們的「人」在哪裡?你把一群人塞到流水線上,構建一個宏偉而龐大的機器;這和你提取一堆活生生的人腦,把他們裝在罐子里,構建一個能解決一切問題的超級計算機。這有什麼本質上的區別嗎?

為什麼左翼普遍鄙視西方經濟學?不管是哪門哪派的「左翼」,除非是「扛著紅旗反紅旗」的那種;不然的話,無論你學識高低,或者你出身如何,你追求的核心無非就是一個——「公平」。但是西方經濟學就是「客觀中立的」從各種層面論證「不公平的合理性」的,那自然而言就會被左翼普遍的鄙視了。

最後寫一個最簡單的問題,留給諸君。在我目前所在的小區裡面,我認識了一個住戶。

他是一個大約50歲左右的男人,看樣子很有錢。他在我們這個小區里買了一套房,同單元的一樓到六樓,他住二樓。

他把其餘的五層樓,當做學生們和外來務工人員的公寓用於出租。他沒有什麼特別的工作要做,只是每個月去收收租金,就能足夠一家一月所需。

他家有一個20歲的男孩兒,念大學。

那麼問題來了:

——假如你是他家20歲的男孩兒,拿著父親給的零花錢,你會覺得他的這種行為是「合理」還是「不合理」的?

——假如你是那其餘5戶外來務工人員,每天晝出夜歸,辛辛苦苦的賺著體力錢,一到收租金的日子還要把一部分收入上交給那個房東,你會覺得他的這種行為是「合理」還是「不合理」的?

我無意於在這兒探討「合理」或者「不合理」的問題,我只想說一點:立場是決定觀點的,而從根本上決定立場的是經濟利益。為什麼很多學生黨喜歡「自由市場」,喜歡「西方經濟學」——說白了就是沒人剝削你。學費是爹媽掏的,食堂宿舍還是廉價的;你也不用「求人家」才能得到一份工作,你也不用「被騙好幾次」才能租到一個比較正常的房間。你也沒有上下班擠過兩個小時的地鐵,你也沒有把睡一下午午覺當做「奢侈品」來看待。你既然有大量的時間可以揮霍,你自然就覺得馬克思談的「勞動時間」是種扯淡的東西。

但歷史總是客觀且冷靜的向前發展的。學習西方經濟學的學生,都會有這樣的一個思想認識過程。他可能會極度的迷信些什麼,偏執於西方經濟學的「美好」。而當他逐漸的認識社會,接觸社會的時候,他的思想便會慢慢的向著馬克思主義政治經濟學扭轉了。

——因為我們每個人絕不可否認的一個真實是:人最重要的從來都是時間,而絕不是金錢。

相關過往回答:JoJo王頎:為什麼現在生活比以前(或者古代)好了,我卻感覺不到幸福?


當年的馬教徒直接參与到實踐中,鬧革命打翻支持主流經濟學的學者。現在的左翼也就用嘴巴用筆用鍵盤鄙視一下,卻仍然逃不掉學者理論派的桎梏。

批判的神學家仍然是神學家。


翁同龢總是鄙視李鴻章,很正常。畢竟不做事就不會出錯,天生有資格鄙視做事的。

不過天朝左翼最讓人驚訝的是,他們環顧四周,整個世界並不缺乏實行他們理論的國家,如今沒有一個成功,解體的解體變修的變修,這種情況下還能睜著眼說瞎話,說他們理論不成功是因為官僚道德水平不夠……佩服他們的厚顏無恥。


問題問的真的奇怪

首先左派指的是哪個層面的左派,財政經濟領域的左右派,社會文化層面的左右派,還是政治層面的左右派?

再一個,主流經濟學,是指的哪個流派?1988年菲爾普斯說宏觀經濟思想有七流派,今天這個數量沒有減少,也沒有誰敢說自己是主流。並且,馬克思主義政治經濟學和我們所謂宏觀微觀經濟學之間,根本就不在一個位面,一個是解決問題的科學,一個是批判問題之所以出現的科學,他們會矛盾嗎?不存在的。有的是研究西方經濟學的共產黨員,我們今天搞市場化,也沒有違背祖師爺的宗旨。


能學會鄙視現代主流經濟學的,已經算高知了吧,大多數在其他論壇標榜左派毛左的,是真的不知道近七八十年的發展,單純對著只存在19世紀的情形瘋狂輸出。

左一句自由市場經濟帶來壟斷,右一句政府不能干涉市場無能為力...看得人莫名尷尬。

給指出他們描述的只是19世紀的資本主義,就振振有詞:如果不是我共產主義及時出現,你資本主義怎能自我完善?你說的那些改良不都是採納了共產主義的思想?

嗯,很棒棒,「資本主義」被永遠定格在了20世紀初,那我們幹嘛還要批判一個死人呢?


謝邀。

作為安玲欽定的大毒草的作者,本來不想回答這個問題,但是反覆受邀,只好說兩句:

首先,

馬克思的《資本論》寫了三件事:資本怎麼來的,資本會怎麼運動,資本控制下的社會生產為什麼周期性發生危機。

資本怎麼來的?

——資本原始積累,坑蒙拐騙,搶劫販毒販奴,官商勾結,國家財政補貼,侵吞國有資產化公為私。原始資本產生的方法,基本都在刑法里。

資本會怎麼運動?

——最高幅度地榨取利潤,擴張、兼并、壟斷,發展生產、囤積居奇、投機倒賣都是資本的可選項,發展生產不過是資本增殖的副產品之一……

資本控制下的社會生產為什麼會周期性危機?

——資本的擴張與資本主義社會化生產出來的商品的價值實現之間存在矛盾,資本家榨取了既不打算消費也暫時不追加投資的利潤,必然導致商品滯銷。在壟斷時代就是長期停滯,這是列寧給打的補丁。

由這三個問題衍生出來的觀點,包括人還是資本,是決定資本主義社會生產?資本除了決定社會生產,還決定什麼?

人還是資本,是決定資本主義社會生產?

——按照馬克思主義,所有人都是資本的奴隸。資本家也不過是資本的宿主。人在江湖身不由己,不盡量多地榨取利潤,自己的資本就會被其他人的資本兼并,自己就要被資本拋棄。

資本除了決定社會生產,還決定什麼?

——經濟基礎決定上層建築。資本控制生產的時代,一個人要活下去,就要接受資本的擺布。如果要活得好,就要盡心竭力為資本服務。這其中就包括馬克思說的「文丐」,比如,今天說的主流學者。當然,還有打著馬克思主義旗號販賣私貨替統治階級服務的人,比如當年的伯恩斯坦。須知,馬克思一生中投入了大量的精力與這些「文丐」辯論。

西方經濟學中,有哪一派把這些事情說清楚?說得這麼直接,捅穿了窗戶紙?

其次,

說到理論互通性,馬克思的理論完全能解釋凱恩斯,而且比凱恩斯的解釋簡單得多。

資本大量榨取剩餘價值,必然導致商品利潤中,資本家不打算消費的那部分價值實現困難。

在自由競爭時代表現為周期性生產過剩,在壟斷時代表現為長期停滯(這裡需要加入列寧對壟斷資本的分析)。

怎麼解決,政府印鈔實現多餘商品的價值,這就是凱恩斯說的掏挖垃圾坑。

如果看到凱恩斯說的所有人都打遍紙牌,需要政府增加籌碼才能保證所有人都贏錢的比喻,就知道凱恩斯其實理解資本主義內在矛盾,也知道自己的理論是飲鴆止渴,只是不能點穿。

那麼應該是馬克思的理論向凱恩斯靠攏,還是凱恩斯的理論向馬克思靠攏呢?

從時間上,馬克思早於凱恩斯,從完整性、系統性、邏輯嚴密性上,馬克思超過凱恩斯。誰的理論更有價值?是凱恩斯包容了馬克思,還是凱恩斯用更含混的方式再次闡述了馬克思早就清晰闡明的問題?

怎麼評價一種經濟學是不是主流,一是看這種經濟學理論在教材中的地位,二是看這種經濟學理論對經濟政策的影響。

現在主流的兩大派,一派來自凱恩斯,一派來自弗里德曼,一派代表官僚、軍企聯合體、承包商的利益,一派代表資本的利益。

這兩派的理論,哪一派承認資本的權利力?哪一派承認資本對人的支配,導致人格異化?哪一派分析了為利潤而生產的資本主義生產模式,存在內在的無法調和矛盾,周期性的危機或者長期蕭條與資本主導社會化生產之間內在的有必然的聯繫?

哪一派也沒有。

西方經濟學之中,確實有一些左翼借鑒了馬克思的理論,試圖搞調和,但是左翼從來不是西方經濟學的主流。左翼的目的,並不是揭示資本主導社會生產的內在矛盾,而是為改良、調和找理由。西方經濟學的左翼,不過是相比經濟學的主流還略有一些良心而已,許多事情不能點穿。

現在的情況是,當有人批評西方經濟學的時候,有人就把西方經濟學的左翼拿出來當擋箭牌,你看看,我們也有左翼,和馬克思也有點像,卻閉口不談西方經濟學的左翼從來不是西方經濟學的主流。更不提這些左翼的理論相比馬克思的理論,誕生得晚得多,弱爆了,似是而非,似馬實鹿。

再次,

馬克思的理論是被壓迫者的理論,是革命的理論,不利於統治。所有的統治階級,都設法詆毀它、封禁它、篡改它、閹割它、污名化它。文丐不僅出自對立陣營,好包括許多打著馬克思主義的旗號搞修正的人。

這就是為什麼馬克思、列寧之後,馬克思主義發展緩慢的原因。

判斷一個人是不是真正的馬克思主義者,要看看他承認不承認階級社會存在剝削壓榨關係,承認不承認統治階級控制經濟基礎以後也會控制上層建築,承認不承認議會鬥爭其實是在統治階級允許的範圍內的有限鬥爭,承認不承認改良解決不了統治階級和被統治階級之間剝削與被剝削的根本矛盾,承認不承認在以私有財產為基礎的社會中物對人的支配超過人對物的支配,研究馬克思主義的目的是尋求全人類的解放。

歷史上,與馬克思主義有各種淵源的人很多,比如伯恩斯坦。但是,這些人未必是真正的馬克思主義者,其中很多人成為了歷史的沉渣。其中有些人,對馬克思的著作的熟悉程度不亞於馬克思本人。正是這樣,他們才有能力從浩如煙海的馬克思著作中摘取隻言片語,按照他們的需要拼湊成為違背馬克思本意的「馬克思主義」。

馬克思也好,列寧也好,都投入了大量的精力與代表各個階級利益的各色人等辯論,這其中也包括那些熟悉馬克思主義,修正馬克思主義的人。

相比之下,太祖那種到了延安之後,也沒有系統接受過馬克思主義教育的人,卻成了真正的馬克思主義者。

The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways - the point however is to change it.

最後,

既然馬克思教育我們,與其投入大量的精力與這些人辯論,不如改造這個世界。或者說,要動手少逼逼。

所以本文只是把自己的觀點提出來,不和任何人辯論。

所以,限制評論了。


How did Paul Krugman get it so Wrong?

John H. Cochrane*

September 16 2009

Many friends and colleagues have asked me what I think of Paul Krugman』s New York Times Magazine article, 「How did Economists get it so wrong?」

Most of all, it』s sad. Imagine this weren』t economics for a moment. Imagine this were a respected scientist turned popular writer, who says, most basically, that everything everyone has done in his field since the mid 1960s is a complete waste of time. Everything that fills its academic journals, is taught in its PhD programs, presented at its conferences, summarized in its graduate textbooks, and rewarded with the accolades a profession can bestow, including multiple Nobel prizes, is totally wrong. Instead, he calls for a return to the eternal verities of a rather convoluted book written in the 1930s, as taught to our author in his undergraduate introductory courses. If a scientist, he might be an AIDS-HIV disbeliever, a creationist, a stalwart that maybe continents don』t move after all.

It gets worse. Krugman hints at dark conspiracies, claiming 「dissenters are marginalized.」 Most of the article is just a calumnious personal attack on an ever-growing enemies list, which now includes 「new Keynesians」 such as Olivier Blanchard and Greg Mankiw. Rather than source professional writing, he plays gotcha with out-of-context second-hand quotes from media interviews. He makes stuff up, boldly putting words in people』s mouths that run contrary to their written opinions. Even this isn』t enough: he adds cartoons to try to make his 「enemies」 look silly, and puts them in false and embarrassing situations. He accuses us of adopting ideas for pay, selling out for 「sabbaticals at the Hoover institution」 and fat 「Wall street paychecks.」 It sounds a bit paranoid.

It』s annoying to the victims, but we』re big boys and girls. It』s a disservice to New York Times readers. They depend on Krugman to read real academic literature and digest it, and they get this attack instead. And it』s ineffective. Any astute reader knows that personal attacks and innuendo mean the author has run out of ideas.

That』s the biggest and saddest news of this piece: Paul Krugman has no interesting ideas whatsoever about what caused our current financial and economic problems, what policies might have prevented it, or what might help us in the future, and he has no contact with people who do. 「Irrationality」 and advice to spend like a drunken sailor are pretty superficial compared to all the fascinating things economists are writing about it these days.

How sad.

That』s what I think, but I don』t expect you the reader to be convinced by my opinion or my reference to professional consensus. Maybe he is right. Occasionally sciences, especially social sciences, do take a wrong turn for a decade or two. I thought Keynesian economics was such a wrong turn. So let』s take a quick look at the ideas.

Krugman』s attack has two goals. First, he thinks financial markets are 「inefficient,」 fundamentally due to 「irrational」 investors, and thus prey to excessive volatility which needs government control. Second, he likes the huge 「fiscal stimulus」 provided by multi-trillion dollar deficits.

Efficiency.

It』s fun to say we didn』t see the crisis coming, but the central empirical prediction of the efficient markets hypothesis is precisely that nobody can tell where markets are going – neither benevolent government bureaucrats, nor crafty hedge-fund managers, nor ivory-tower academics. This is probably the best-tested proposition in all the social sciences. Krugman knows this, so all he can do is huff and puff about his dislike for a theory whose central prediction is that nobody can be a reliable soothsayer. And of course it makes no sense whatsoever to try to discredit efficient-markets finance because its followers didn』t see the crash coming.

Krugman writes as if the volatility of stock prices alone disproves market efficiency, and efficient marketers just ignored it all these years. This is a canard that Paul knows better than to pass on, no matter how rhetorically convenient. (I can overlook his mixing up the CAPM and Black-Scholes model, but not this.) There is nothing about 「efficiency」 that promises 「stability.」 「Stable」 growth would in fact be a major violation of efficiency. Efficient markets did not need to wait for 「the memory of 1929 … gradually receding,」 nor did we fail to read the newspapers in 1987. Data from the great depression has been included in practically all the tests. In fact, the great 「equity premium puzzle」 is that if efficient, stock markets don』t seem risky enough to deter more people from investing! Gene Fama』s PhD thesis was on 「fat tails」 in stock returns.

It is true and very well documented that asset prices move more than reasonable expectations of future cashflows. This might be because people are prey to bursts of irrational optimism and pessimism. It might also be because people』s willingness to take on risk varies over time, and is lower in bad economic times. As Gene Fama pointed out in 1970, these are observationally equivalent explanations. Unless you are willing to elaborate your theory to the point that it can quantitatively describe how much and when risk premiums, or waves of 「optimism」 and 「pessimism,」 can vary, you know nothing. No theory is particularly good at that right now.

Crying 「bubble」 is empty unless you have an operational procedure for identifying bubbles, distinguishing them from rationally low risk premiums, and not crying wolf too many years in a row. Krugman rightly praises Robert Shiller for his warnings over many years that house prices might fall. But advice that we should listen to Shiller, because he got the last one right, is no more useful than previous advice from many quarters to listen to Greenspan because he got several ones right. Following the last mystic oracle until he gets one wrong, then casting him to the wolves, is not a good long-term strategy for identifying bubbles. Krugman likes Shiller because he advocates behavioral ideas, but that』s no help either. People who call themselves behavioral have just as wide a divergence of opinion as those who don』t. Are markets irrationally exuberant or irrationally depressed today? It』s hard to tell.

This difficulty is no surprise. It』s the central prediction of free-market economics, as crystallized by Hayek, that no academic, bureaucrat or regulator will ever be able to fully explain market price movements. Nobody knows what 「fundamental」 value is. If anyone could tell what the price of tomatoes should be, let alone the price of Microsoft stock, communism and central planning would have worked.

More deeply, the economist』s job is not to 「explain」 market fluctuations after the fact, to give a pleasant story on the evening news about why markets went up or down. Markets up? 「A wave of positive sentiment.」 Markets went down? 「Irrational pessimism.」 ( 「The risk premium must have increased」 is just as empty.) Our ancestors could do that. Really, is that an improvement on 「Zeus had a fight with Apollo?」 Good serious behavioral economists know this, and they are circumspect in their explanatory claims.

But this argument takes us away from the main point. The case for free markets never was that markets are perfect. The case for free markets is that government control of markets, especially asset markets, has always been much worse.

Krugman at bottom is arguing that the government should massively intervene in financial markets, and take charge of the allocation of capital. He can』t quite come out and say this, but he does say 「Keynes considered it a very bad idea to let such markets…dictate important business decisions,」 and 「finance economists believed that we should put the capital development of the nation in the hands of what Keynes had called a `casino.』」 Well, if markets can』t be trusted to allocate capital, we don』t have to connect too many dots to imagine who Paul has in mind.

To reach this conclusion, you need evidence, experience, or any realistic hope that the alternative will be better. Remember, the SEC couldn』t even find Bernie Madoff when he was handed to them on a silver platter. Think of the great job Fannie, Freddie, and Congress did in the mortgage market. Is this system going to regulate Citigroup, guide financial markets to the right price, replace the stock market, and tell our society which new products are worth investment? As David Wessel』s excellent In Fed We Trust makes perfectly clear, government regulators failed just as abysmally as private investors and economists to see the storm coming. And not from any lack of smarts.

In fact, the behavioral view gives us a new and stronger argument against regulation and control. Regulators are just as human and irrational as market participants. If bankers are, in Krugman』s words, 「idiots,」 then so must be the typical treasury secretary, fed chairman, and regulatory staff. They act alone or in committees, where behavioral biases are much better documented than in market settings. They are still easily captured by industries, and face politically distorted incentives.

Careful behavioralists know this, and do not quickly run from 「the market got it wrong」 to 「the government can put it all right.」 Even my most behavioral colleagues Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein in their book 「Nudge」 go only so far as a light libertarian paternalism, suggesting good default options on our 401(k) accounts. (And even here they』re not very clear on how the Federal Nudging Agency is going to steer clear of industry capture.) They don』t even think of jumping from irrational markets, which they believe in deeply, to Federal control of stock and house prices and allocation of capital.

Stimulus

Most of all, Krugman likes fiscal stimulus. In this quest, he accuses us and the rest of the economics profession of 「mistaking beauty for truth.」 He』s not clear on what the 「beauty」 is that we all fell in love with, and why one should shun it, for good reason. The first siren of beauty is simple logical consistency. Paul』s Keynesian economics requires that people make logically inconsistent plans to consume more, invest more, and pay more taxes with the same income. The second siren is plausible assumptions about how people behave. Keynesian economics requires that the government is able to systematically fool people again and again. It presumes that people don』t think about the future in making decisions today. Logical consistency and plausible foundations are indeed 「beautiful」 but to me they are also basic preconditions for 「truth.」

In economics, stimulus spending ran aground on Robert Barro』s Ricardian equivalence theorem. This theorem says that debt-financed spending can』t have any more effect than spending financed by raising taxes. People, seeing the higher future taxes that must pay off the debt, will simply save more. They will buy the new government debt and leave all spending decisions unaltered. Is this theorem true? It』s a logical connection from a set of 「if」 to a set of 「therefores.」 Not even Paul can object to the connection.

Therefore, we have to examine the 「ifs.」 And those ifs are, as usual, obviously not true. For example, the theorem presumes lump-sum taxes, not proportional income taxes. Alas, when you take this into account we are all made poorer by deficit spending, so the multiplier is most likely negative. The theorem (like most Keynesian economics) ignores the composition of output; but surely spending money on roads rather than cars can affect the overall level.

Economists have spent a generation tossing and turning the Ricardian equivalence theorem, and assessing the likely effects of fiscal stimulus in its light, generalizing the 「ifs」 and figuring out the likely 「therefores.」 This is exactly the right way to do things. The impact of Ricardian equivalence is not that this simple abstract benchmark is literally true. The impact is that in its wake, if you want to understand the effects of government spending, you have to specify why it is false. Doing so does not lead you anywhere near old-fashioned Keynesian economics. It leads you to consider distorting taxes, how much people care about their children, how many people would like to borrow more to finance today』s consumption and so on. And when you find 「market failures」 that might justify a multiplier, optimal-policy analysis suggests fixing the market failures, not their exploitation by fiscal multiplier. Most 「New Keynesian」 analyses that add frictions don』t produce big multipliers.

This is how real thinking about stimulus actually proceeds. Nobody ever 「asserted that an increase in government spending cannot, under any circumstances, increase employment.」 This is unsupportable by any serious review of professional writings, and Krugman knows it. (My own are perfectly clear on lots of possibilities for an answer that is not zero.) But thinking through this sort of thing and explaining it is much harder than just tarring your enemies with out-of-context quotes, ethical innuendo, or silly cartoons.

In fact, I propose that Krugman himself doesn』t really believe the Keynesian logic for that stimulus. I doubt he would follow that logic to its inevitable conclusions. Stimulus must have some other attraction to him.

If you believe the Keynesian argument for stimulus, you should think Bernie Madoff is a hero. He took money from people who were saving it, and gave it to people who most assuredly were going to spend it. Each dollar so transferred, in Krugman』s world, generates an additional dollar and a half of national income. The analogy is even closer. Madoff didn』t just take money from his savers, he essentially borrowed it from them, giving them phony accounts with promises of great profits to come. This looks a lot like government debt.

If you believe the Keynesian argument for stimulus, you don』t care how the money is spent. All this puffery about 「infrastructure,」 monitoring, wise investment, jobs 「created」 and so on is pointless. Keynes thought the government should pay people to dig ditches and fill them up.

If you believe in Keynesian stimulus, you don』t even care if the government spending money is stolen. Actually, that would be better. Thieves have notoriously high propensities to consume.

The crash.

Krugman』s article is supposedly about how the crash and recession changed our thinking, and what economics has to say about it. The most amazing news in the whole article is that Paul Krugman has absolutely no idea about what caused the crash, what policies might have prevented it, and what policies we should adopt going forward. He seems completely unaware of the large body of work by economists who actually do know something about the banking and financial system, and have been thinking about it productively for a generation.

Here』s all he has to say: 「Irrationality」 caused markets to go up and then down. 「Spending」 then declined, for unclear reasons, possibly 「irrational」 as well. The sum total of his policy recommendations is for the Federal Government to spend like a drunken sailor after the fact.

Paul, there was a financial crisis, a classic near-run on banks. The centerpiece of our crash was not the relatively free stock or real estate markets, it was the highly regulated commercial banks. A generation of economists has thought really hard about these kinds of events. Look up Diamond, Rajan, Gorton, Kashyap, Stein, and so on. They』ve thought about why there is so much short term debt, why banks run, how deposit insurance and credit guarantees help, and how they give incentives for excessive risk taking.

If we want to think about events and policies, this seems like more than a minor detail. The hard and central policy debate over the last year was how to manage this financial crisis. Now it is how to set up the incentives of banks and other financial institutions so this mess doesn』t happen again. There』s lots of good and subtle economics here that New York Times readers might like to know about. What does Krugman have to say? Zero.

Krugman doesn』t even have anything to say about the Fed. Ben Bernanke did a lot more last year than set the funds rate to zero and then go off on vacation and wait for fiscal policy to do its magic. Leaving aside the string of bailouts, the Fed started term lending to securities dealers. Then, rather than buy treasuries in exchange for reserves, it essentially sold treasuries in exchange for private debt. Though the funds rate was near zero, the Fed noticed huge commercial paper and securitized debt spreads, and intervened in those markets. There is no 「the」 interest rate anymore, the Fed is attempting to manage them all. Recently the Fed has started buying massive quantities of mortgage-backed securities and long-term treasury debt.

Monetary policy now has little to do with 「money」 vs. 「bonds」 with all the latter lumped together. Monetary policy has become wide-ranging financial policy. Does any of this work? What are the dangers? Can the Fed stay independent in this new role? These are the questions of our time. What does Krugman have to say? Nothing.

Krugman is trying to say that a cabal of obvious crackpots bedazzled all of macroeconomics with the beauty of their mathematics, to the point of inducing policy paralysis. Alas, that won』t stick. The sad fact is that few in Washington pay the slightest attention to modern macroeconomic research, in particular anything with a serious intertemporal dimension. Paul』s simple Keynesianism has dominated policy analysis for decades and continues to do so. From the CEA to the Fed to the OMB and CBO, everyone just adds up consumer, investment and government 「demand」 to forecast output and uses simple Phillips curves to think about inflation. If a failure of ideas caused bad policy, it』s a simpleminded Keynesianism that failed.

The future of economics.

How should economics change? Krugman argues for three incompatible changes.

First, he argues for a future of economics that 「recognizes flaws and frictions,」 and incorporates alternative assumptions about behavior, especially towards risk-taking. To which I say, 「Hello, Paul, where have you been for the last 30 years?」 Macroeconomists have not spent 30 years admiring the eternal verities of Kydland and Prescott』s 1982 paper. Pretty much all we have been doing for 30 years is introducing flaws, frictions and new behaviors, especially new models of attitudes to risk, and comparing the resulting models, quantitatively, to data. The long literature on financial crises and banking which Krugman does not mention has also been doing exactly the same.

Second, Krugman argues that 「a more or less Keynesian view is the only plausible game in town,」 and 「Keynesian economics remains the best framework we have for making sense of recessions and depressions.」 One thing is pretty clear by now, that when economics incorporates flaws and frictions, the result will not be to rehabilitate an 80-year-old book. As Paul bemoans, the 「new Keynesians」 who did just what he asks, putting Keynes inspired price-stickiness into logically coherent models, ended up with something that looked a lot more like monetarism. (Actually, though this is the consensus, my own work finds that new-Keynesian economics ended up with something much different and more radical than monetarism.) A science that moves forward almost never ends up back where it started. Einstein revises Newton, but does not send you back to Aristotle. At best you can play the fun game of hunting for inspirational quotes, but that doesn』t mean that you could have known the same thing by just reading Keynes once more.

Third, and most surprising, is Krugman』s Luddite attack on mathematics; 「economists as a group, mistook beauty, clad in impressive-looking mathematics, for truth.」 Models are 「gussied up with fancy equations.」 I』m old enough to remember when Krugman was young, working out the interactions of game theory and increasing returns in international trade for which he won the Nobel Prize, and the old guard tut-tutted 「nice recreational mathematics, but not real-world at all.」 He once wrote eloquently about how only math keeps your ideas straight in economics. How quickly time passes.

Again, what is the alternative? Does Krugman really think we can make progress on his – and my – agenda for economic and financial research -- understanding frictions, imperfect markets, complex human behavior, institutional rigidities – by reverting to a literary style of exposition, and abandoning the attempt to compare theories quantitatively against data? Against the worldwide tide of quantification in all fields of human endeavor (read 「Moneyball」) is there any real hope that this will work in economics?

No, the problem is that we don』t have enough math. Math in economics serves to keep the logic straight, to make sure that the 「then」 really does follow the 「if,」 which it so frequently does not if you just write prose. The challenge is how hard it is to write down explicit artificial economies with these ingredients, actually solve them, in order to see what makes them tick. Frictions are just bloody hard with the mathematical tools we have now.

The insults.

The level of personal attack in this article, and fudging of the facts to achieve it, is simply amazing.

As one little example (ok, I』m a bit sensitive), take my quotation about carpenters in Nevada. I didn』t write this. It』s a quote, taken out of context, from a http://bloomberg.com article, written by a reporter who I spent about 10 hours with patiently trying to explain some basics, and who also turned out only to be on a hunt for embarrassing quotes. (It』s the last time I』ll do that!) I was trying to explain how sectoral shifts contribute to unemployment. Krugman follows it by a lie -- I never asserted that 「it take mass unemployment across the whole nation to get carpenters to move out of Nevada.」 You can』t even dredge up a quote for that monstrosity.

What』s the point? I don』t think Paul disagrees that sectoral shifts result in some unemployment, so the quote actually makes sense as economics. The only point is to make me, personally, seem heartless -- a pure, personal, calumnious attack, having nothing to do with economics.

Bob Lucas has written extensively on Keynesian and monetarist economics, sensibly and even-handedly. Krugman chooses to quote a joke, made back in 1980 at a lunch talk to some business school alumni. Really, this is on the level of the picture of Barack Obama with Bill Ayers that Sean Hannity likes to show on Fox News.

It goes on. Krugman asserts that I and others 「believe」 「that an increase in government spending cannot, under any circumstances, increase employment,」 or that we 「argued that price fluctuations and shocks to demand actually had nothing to do with the business cycle.」 These are just gross distortions, unsupported by any documentation, let alone professional writing. And Krugman knows better. All economic models are simplified to exhibit one point; we all understand the real world is more complicated; and his job is supposed to be to explain that to lay readers. It would be no different than if someone were to look up Paul』s early work which assumed away transport costs and claim 「Paul Krugman believes ocean shipping is free, how stupid」 in the Wall Street Journal.

The idea that any of us do what we do because we』re paid off by fancy Wall Street salaries or cushy sabbaticals at Hoover is just ridiculous. (If Krugman knew anything about hedge funds he』d know that believing in efficient markets disqualifies you for employment. Nobody wants a guy who thinks you can』t make any money trading!) Given Krugman』s speaking fees, it』s a surprising first stone for him to cast.

Apparently, salacious prose, innuendo, calumny, and selective quotation from media aren』t enough: Krugman added cartoons to try to make opponents look silly. The Lucas-Blanchard-Bernanke conspiratorial cocktail party celebrating the end of recessions is a silly fiction. So is their despondent gloom on reading 「recession」 in the paper. Nobody at a conference looks like Dr. Pangloss with wild hair and a suit from the 1800s. (OK, Randy Wright has the hair, but not the suit.) Keynes did not reappear at the NBER to be booed as an 「outsider.」 Why are you allowed to make things up in pictures that wouldn』t pass even the Times』 weak fact-checking in words?

Most of all, Krugman isn』t doing his job. He』s supposed to read, explain, and criticize things economists write, and real professional writing, not interviews, opeds and blog posts. At a minimum, this style leads to the unavoidable conclusion that Krugman isn』t reading real economics anymore.

How did Krugman get it so wrong?

So what is Krugman up to? Why become a denier, a skeptic, an apologist for 70 year old ideas, replete with well-known logical fallacies, a pariah? Why publish an essentially personal attack on an ever-growing enemies list that now includes practically every professional economist? Why publish an incoherent vision for the future of economics?

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that Krugman isn』t trying to be an economist, he is trying to be a partisan, political opinion writer. This is not an insult. I read George Will, Charles Krauthnammer and Frank Rich with equal pleasure even when I disagree with them. Krugman wants to be Rush Limbaugh of the Left.

Alas, to Krugman, as to far too many ex-economists in partisan debates, economics is not a quest for understanding. It is a set of debating points to argue for policies that one has adopted for partisan political purposes. 「Stimulus」 is just marketing to sell Congressmen and voters on a package of government spending priorities that you want for political reasons. It』s not a proposition to be explained, understood, taken seriously to its logical limits, or reflective of market failures that should be addressed directly.

Why argue for a nonsensical future for economics? Well, again, if you don』t regard economics as a science, a discipline that ought to result in quantitative matches to data, a discipline that requires crystal-clear logical connections between the 「if」 and the 「then,」 if the point of economics is merely to provide marketing and propaganda for politically-motivated policy, then his writing does make sense. It makes sense to appeal to some future economics – not yet worked out, even verbally – to disdain quantification and comparison to data, and to appeal to the authority of ancient books as interpreted by you, their lone remaining apostle.

Most of all, this is the only reason I can come up with to understand why Krugman wants to write personal attacks on those who disagree with him. I like it when people disagree with me, and take time to read my work and criticize it. At worst I learn how to position it better. At best, I discover I was wrong and learn something. I send a polite thank you note.

Krugman wants people to swallow his arguments whole from his authority, without demanding logic, or evidence. Those who disagree with him, alas, are pretty smart and have pretty good arguments if you bother to read them. So, he tries to discredit them with personal attacks.

This is the political sphere, not the intellectual one. Don』t argue with them, swift-boat them. Find some embarrassing quote from an old interview. Well, good luck, Paul. Let』s just not pretend this has anything to do with economics, or actual truth about how the world works or could be made a better place.

*University of Chicago Booth School of Business. Many colleagues and friends helped, but I don』t want to name them for obvious reasons. Krugman fans: Please don』t bother emailing me to tell me what a jerk I am. I will update this occasionally, so please pass on the link rather than the document,


我剛上經濟學課的時候,宏觀經濟的老師說現在還沒有一種經濟理論能完美地解決所有經濟問題,宏觀經濟中不同學派之間也有很多爭論,我們現在套用的理論只是能比其他學派的理論更好地解釋當前經濟環境。

然後我上了精英雲集的知乎平台,關注了經濟學話題,其中有很多某教教徒,他們說某教理論就是真理,其他理論都是剝削理論,真理永不改變,改良主義都是異教徒。


以前我努力學習各種晦澀的理論,模型,專家教授誰提出了什麼理論,努力理解各種層出不求的學術理念並各種穀歌百度,後來我發現這些很像玄學,無法證真和證偽,好似哲學或者中醫一樣。而國家提出各類政策,專家解讀時候隨手拿出的西方觀點就好像我們寫作文來一個名人名句一樣,根據需求量身去摘取,而需求就是領導的喜好。

上一波經濟掌權的師從厲以寧吳敬璉等自由經濟學派(實質是私人吞併公有資產的理論支持,冰棍化沒化不清楚,反正不是我的了,這一波又折騰回去了),這一代因為2015亂象,劉掌權,推計劃經濟,從搞活新經濟回歸實體,有選擇的降經濟槓桿(實質是壓縮私營企業生存空間,擴大國有企業的生存空間)。上行下效,各方面都會有解讀,實際解讀的主題就是領導說得對,做的對,比如周末這一波神煤干出了200多億利潤,一家乾的不能再乾的初級礦業干出了創業50指標股加一起的利潤,正常么?這一比較,西方自由經濟還有個卵用。

實際中國30年的經濟騰飛是建立在人口結構和低需求向高需求過渡基礎上的 ,怎麼折騰都區別不大。政策無論是擴張激進還是收縮保守,都是一個高撫養比高物質需求的人口紅利階段,過去三十年我們社會從文革後的低物質需求向改革開放的高物質需求轉變,五六七十年代高生育率的人口進入青壯年帶來的高物質需求疊加,產生的罕見的高需求,大市場的經濟活躍期。

未來能保持住目前的市場需求幾乎是不可能的,所以也是任何經濟政策都無解的,去產能把利潤扔到上游純粹扯淡,關停的企業,人的就業怎麼解決?中游下游多支付的成本能轉移到消費端么?轉移不到自己能承受的起么?承受不起再進行中游企業的去供給側么?推演下來,消費段是不是也來個去供給側,這不就是通縮么?

實際和當年國企改革異曲同工,砸碎一些人飯碗人為製造供給側減少,好處肯定是國企壞賬減少穩定了,但是關停的企業怎麼辦,他們也是GDP,精簡的人怎麼辦,他們也是人,自生自滅?不過是西方說的經濟周期,供大於求造成破產潮換了一個方式,由市場決定變成由國家來決定誰關停誰失業。

供大於求的情況下由國家選擇關停誰,和自由經濟大家都死扛,就是直接槍斃死一個和兩個死扛誰先餓死這兩條路誰對誰錯的問題。沒有哪個選擇更正確,只有領導的選擇最正確。真正該吸取當年大下崗的經驗的是失業人員安置保障問題,維持人的基本生存和尊嚴的問題,這又一次選擇性消失,喊我不下崗誰下崗那一次犧牲了一代人,就那麼過去了。因為這個事情沒人提,領導不愛聽,國企去供給側效益漲了,領導愛聽,大家都去研究宣傳,搞的群眾真以為這事是社會主義優越性了。大家還能想起想起前年黑龍江煤礦十萬人,去年武鋼的兩萬人消息么?2008年開始研究的切蛋糕問題,也許久沒有下文了,切蛋糕多難啊,中國網路普及率也不過50%,比鄉鎮殺馬特更低檔,連網都上不了的落後生產力就直接關停了沒問題。

一個全世界上百國家實驗了兩百年都無法解決的供需和分配問題,我們一個簡單的關停就解決了是不可能的,那樣人家早就學會了,根本原因,就是我們可以直接把一部分人飯碗砸碎甩下車還不讓說話,剩下在車上的說太棒了,我應該還能在車上,但是我覺得這不太對勁。

另外說一個搞笑的現象,這一波地條鋼關停,廢鋼沒人要,便宜的大量出口,鐵礦石卻越長越高,下一波怎麼計劃怎麼關停,我都想不出來再怎麼搞了。


左翼鄙視主流經濟學,多魔幻啊,先定義了一個「主流經濟學」,再來個論壇鄙視大法,最後獲得了鍵盤勝利。

不過也正常,畢竟左翼可用的材料特別多,隨便翻開一本七十年代中期的《政治經濟學》,對「資本主義庸俗經濟學」的鄙視和憎惡之情就已經鋪天蓋地了,什麼勞動依附於資本啦,資本對人的異化啦,資本家對勞動者的剝削啦,資本主義無法解決周期性經濟危機啦,隨便引用一點,再來句「早就預言了……」或者是「told you」,就可以自我勝利了。

可問題是,幾十年來,這些「told you」有變化嗎?沒有啊。對資本主義的藥方變化過嗎?也沒有啊。

那我們還是回想下,上一次讓政治經濟學對一個國家下藥,結果是啥呢?

被顛覆了呀,都結束了呀。

已經按葯給了,怎麼還是失敗了呢?只好怨天尤人,一會兒官僚體系反撲了,一會兒誰誰變修了,一會兒資本主義對社會主義的聯手絞殺啦,連勞動人民都成了短視的傻子——都怪你們不好!鬥爭得不夠呀,沒有聽毛主席的話吧,看,幾十年過去,又被剝削了吧?活該~

反正問題都是別人的,自己是沒問題的。

再回到這個問題上, 為啥左翼要鄙視主流經濟學呢?

因為兩點。

第一,他們需要敵人呀,沒有敵人,怎麼解釋這麼完美的自己最終失敗了呢?

第二,他們什麼都不用做呀,反正鍋不是自己背。

至於「主流」經濟學到底在做什麼,研究什麼,其實他們之中大部分人是搞不清的,反正現在的世界是按照「主流經濟學」運行的,能替自己背鍋就行了。

就像現在中醫沒法鄙視西醫,是因為中醫還在治病,因此很容易被找到噴點,可是看看那廣告,什麼苗醫蒙醫,不是一個個都在「told you」然後出些祖傳老藥方行騙么?

(????)??嗨,誰讓他們現在不準正規行醫呢,不準行醫,那就看不到問題啦,那當然站在了鄙視鏈最頂點啦,就成了傳說中的萬靈藥了。

可是,政治經濟學並不是傳說中的靈藥,他可是實踐過的喲,從這個意義上講,是不是要說一句,還好政治經濟學幾十年前就失敗了,而且很多人記性不太好——否則鍵盤俠們哪來那麼多理直氣壯呢,鍋都成自己的啦。

從統治全國的學說,政治經濟學最終變成了一種論壇上相互鬥嘴的娛樂活動,主要的作用是引出下列論斷——

1,「我們看得最透徹,你早就被剝削了,別不承認」、

2,「我們可是在研究屠龍術喲」、

3,「貧富差距越來越大,呵呵,told you」、

4,「經濟危機了吧,你看你看,資本主義周期性危機,沒解決吧,又來了吧」

只能到這兒了,打一槍就跑,不能戀戰,否則別人問起藥方來,

「我怎麼才能不被剝削呢?」

「政治經濟學如何解決貧富差距呢?」

「經濟危機如何被解決呢?」

一碰到這些問題,政經er們又要張口結舌了,誰讓幾十年前臉被抽太狠了,你們這幫人,怎麼就忘不掉呢!

趕緊轉移話題「那都是因為官僚的反撲……」

於是論壇里又充滿了歡快的笑聲。

所以,就這樣呢還鄙視來鄙視去的,有啥意思呢?不過,只要能開心,就很好啦,也是一種精神追求嘛。

附最新一期AER目錄


不混左圈,隨便答答。

In the long run we are all dead.(長遠來看我們都死了。)

主流經濟學是何等公平!除了維護這個物的秩序以外再不會多看一眼任何具體的人的死活。

主流經濟學是在解決問題的,而且是高喊著自由、平等、所有制和邊沁的。難道它不是一直從家庭和企業兩方面來幫助完成商品的驚險的跳躍、甚至在必要時要求政府出手相助嗎?除此之外,誰還會有利益之外的義務去改變強者與弱者的關係呢?難道弱勢者在達成契約之時,不是已經自願付出了身為弱勢者的代價么?有什麼不公平的呢?不用物來支配人,難道要用人本身來支配人嗎?

一切自願的都是合意的,一切合意的都是平等的。主流經濟學所做的,都是在強化人的一切選擇都是理性自由的這一發明。這不就是契約精神的內核嗎?我們難道不該遵守這樣的契約精神么?

說不定只是主流經濟學過於精緻,二次微分就讓數學能力不夠的看不懂罷了,不像政治經濟學基本都是線性的,頂多在價值轉形這種地方求點二次方程解什麼的。


這個問題下的回答充分反應了知乎左們對經濟學和經濟學史不學無術的一面,如果某位知乎人真想研究經濟學,不要和這幫不學無術的人在一起。這幫人就是談主義個個牛逼,談具體問題一竅不通的()。尤其是那個錢尼瑪,居然拿著七十年代就被淘汰的凱恩斯主義當主流,十足的笑話。

馬經嚴格地說,是西經的一個分支。客觀價值論也好,剩餘價值論也好,理論根源就是李嘉圖的勞動價值論,但馬經這兩大理論支柱,不客氣一點講,就是bullshit。注意,是bullshit,不是lie。因為從現實角度上講,勞動不一定創造價值,而是可能摧毀價值(這裡的價值指的是邊際效用)。不允許資本參與分配,則無人願意積累資本。

後來西經界引入了邊際效用一說,演化出新古典和奧地利學派,前者後來吸收了凱恩斯,弗里德曼等人的學說形成今日的主流芝加哥學派。而馬經么,已經是淘汰貨,畢竟這個理論的最大價值,是幫勞工爭取權益,不是指導經濟活動。


哇,安玲你提這種問題也不匿名啊,真是毫不掩飾哈?

虧你這簽名還寫回到馬克思呢,原來回了半天回到「吸收了馬克思主義的」、進化了的「主流現代經濟學」去了。不知道同樣講回到馬克思的老華 @華颸霖 資磁不資磁啊?我相信老華同志是不資磁的,畢竟華同志不是壞人。

安玲其人,從ID還是重信青子的時候開始否定「辯證唯物主義」的存在,那時候還裝模作樣地搞一番馬恩原文文本的分析,雖然還是尋章摘句,臭不可聞,但是好歹不敢丟掉馬恩原著這個金字大匾。現在厲害了,直接要回到現代經濟學去了,理由是現代經濟學吸收了馬主義的一部分呢。我只能說你很厲害,騙小學生呢?

順便一說,彼時重信青子否定辯證唯物主義存在的邏輯是,其一,在馬恩原文里,從來沒有出現過辯證唯物主義這樣的字眼來描述自己的思想;其二,後人說歷史唯物主義是辯證唯物主義在歷史方面的應用,但是馬恩直接寫到過歷史唯物主義,而後人才歸納總結出辯證唯物主義,時間線上辯證唯物主義出現在後,前者怎麼可能是它的應用呢?或許諸位在哲學框框里打轉久了的一眼看過去還會覺得沒毛病啊,不就是這樣么。那我來打個比方:其一,牛頓生前其本人的著作里,從來沒有出現過「牛頓力學」或者「經典力學」這個字眼;其二,相對論誕生在牛頓力學200多年後,而後人卻說「牛頓力學是相對論在低速下的近似」,先來者怎麼可能是後來者的近似呢?結論,牛頓力學不存在。

(吐個槽:或許我作為一個純理科生,用完全科學化的視角學習、看待馬主義,所以才能一眼看出這種可笑的話術。)

另外呢,這個問題還非常險惡地使用了一個顛倒主語的話術。我在之前一個回答(蘇聯解體的時候,為什麼不發射所有的核彈? - 知乎)展示過何謂語法分析法,得到600多點贊,可見知乎群眾對能看穿謊言、解除幼稚幻想的分析方法是喜聞樂見的,我很高興。這裡我就再做一次示範。我們來看題主安玲的問題描述:

來,重點在這一句:

可是在馬克思主義政治經濟學中也有使用主流經濟學做研究的,比如羅默的理性選擇馬克思主義,新古典模型也是可以為社會主義進行辯護的。

我們注意,第一小句中,【馬政經】是環境和代主語,【主流經濟學】是對象和賓語,即,馬政經 使用 主流經濟學 做研究,看謂語(「使用」)的位置就很清楚。但是在接下來兩小句中,【主流經濟學】是主語和環境,而【馬政經】變成了賓語——羅默(「主流經濟學」家)在書中使用了馬政經做研究,新古典主義模型(主流經濟學的一個子集)兼容社會主義(馬主義的一個子集)。

這個錯誤明顯到一眼即知讀不通順。我不像很多黑安玲的人,覺得安玲水平低胡吹大氣。相反,我很看得起安玲的水平,至少不可能寫出一句這樣明顯的病句還毫無自知。所以我認為她肯定不是蠢,一定是壞。這是一個話術。前一小句暗示(你們所尊敬崇拜學習研究的)老馬老恩的馬政經也在研究主流經濟學,後兩小句則補充「主流經濟學」的內容,暗示應該接納新古典主義模型。這種拆散原本的事件或語言要素連接順序、只在內容上進行暗示的手法其實在使用了隱喻手法的文學中也很常見,比如非常典型的,《三體III》中雲天明的三個童話,再比如姜文的《讓子彈飛》。

所以說嘛,安玲這個人肯定不是蠢。從一開始,這就是打定了高舉馬主義大旗來反對馬主義、誤導馬主義學習者這個目的而來的。

不過呢,哪怕不用這樣的語法分析法,光是一個掛著「回到馬克思」簽名的人回到「現代主流經濟學」去了本身就已經是一個笑話。截圖為證吧:

上面都是在講安玲這個人,那最後還是回答一下問題本身吧。我只要反問三句話就可以把這個問題擊碎:

1、「主流」經濟學,是誰(什麼人群中)的「主流」?

2、「主流經濟學」,是怎麼變成主流的?

3、化學生理學等科學,可以為中醫的一部分藥方提供辯護,陰陽五行也可以為中醫的一部分藥方提供辯護,那麼我們是不是要平等地學習接受化學、生理學和陰陽五行學說同時作為對中醫的合理闡釋?

說真的,你擺出來的要資磁新古典的邏輯都不是新古典本身多麼科學,而是新古典如何為社主義提供了辯護,我都覺得好笑。就你這還敢自稱科學社會主義者?怕不是要去把科學的定義罰抄三頁。


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