中國和巴基斯坦的關係？

12-30

中國和巴基斯坦的關係，大多數人都突出了現實主義的利益原因。這點沒人會否認，但它絕不是全部，大部分都不是。

因為還有著最樸實的原因——那就是基於從困難時期一同攜手走過的中巴友誼，宗教、民族的價值觀並非完全一致，但是外交方面兩國都遵循穩定而持續的方針，策略上相互配合。好比貧苦時互助的親兄弟，好比磨難時相互救險的好戰友，既然初心未改，自然就友誼長存。

有人可能會搬出某句著名的論斷——「利益面前，沒有永久的友誼」，但話又說回來，在如此給力給面子的全球唯一的全天候戰略夥伴面前，又有什麼巨大的利益值得中國領導人去摒棄、去弱化這段傳統友誼呢？

不忘初心，方得始終。希望像巴基斯坦的國家越來越多，中國在世界舞台上的作為也會越來越大。

去他媽的利益第一論

歷史無世仇，互相看得起，政治上彼此支持，軍事上共同成長，經濟上互利互惠，民眾也承認雙方的友誼。就問一句，世界上除了中巴還有誰？

打臉分割線（自行腦補）

經偉大光榮正確的知友提醒，應該改為歷史無戰爭。。。不然美國加拿大也符合定義。在此檢討

自行腦補勢力範圍劃分。

第一次、第二次巴爾幹戰爭與第一次世界大戰的關係是怎樣的？ - 世界歷史

雅爾塔協定的時候，中共還沒有崛起，所以最後作為常任理事國的中華民國居然被當成殖民地，沿長城劃分蘇美勢力範圍。當時的蘇美英法德意都出現了誤判，泥腿子怎麼可能上台，好吧事實就是他們都被掌摑了。

毛澤東訪問蘇聯，斯大林當然知道他是來幹什麼的，他是來挖蘇聯牆角的，掘蘇聯墳墓的，斯大林看見老毛，那個火大，總不能關起來吧，所以那個時候英國報紙說斯大林軟禁毛澤東也不是空穴來風。

最後斯大林想了一個辦法，外蒙古我已經吃下去了，是不會吐出來的，你可以北失南得，那就是和中國重新單邊劃分世界範圍。也就是所謂的亞洲革命以後就歸你們了，可惜毛澤東沒有叫斯大林簽字確認。口惠而實不至，也就是所謂的亞洲革命以後就歸你們了。毛澤東甚至試探性的進攻了印度，美國對於那種單邊會談紀要的態度，就是全力軍援，極力遏制。蘇聯對於那種非文字性的政治綱領，完全無視，公開批評中國，毛澤東的目的也很簡單啊，我就試試看。

中國為啥支持巴基斯坦？因為可以把亞洲一刀兩段，有了巴基斯坦，蘇聯就休想再染指東南半島，這個世界誰會無利盡起早。於是就有了中國的革命輸出和朝鮮戰爭，因為中國要拓展生存空間。對於一個國家而言，原始資本積累或是生存空間，或是對內剝削，而對內剝削必然帶來社會動蕩，國家統治力就會下降，所以生存空間還是最好的選擇。對於78年前後的中國，唯一的區別就是發展道路的不同。

蘇聯除了胸毛髮達以外，腦袋基本都是短路的狀態，他們無視斯大林所謂的什麼亞洲革命以後就歸你們了，把手直接伸到了金蘭灣，明顯的槍業務啊，還是那句話同行之間才是赤裸裸的仇恨。毛澤東一看外蒙古沒要回來，中法戰爭也白打了，白龍島也餵了狗了，蘇聯是你先不要臉的，那就不要怪毛澤東翻書了，於是拿出一本厚黑學現學現用。

反觀美國。越戰後，美國預判到了中國的勢力範圍主張，於是退出了亞太，給中國留下了生存空間，而中國也適時的和美國建交，並迅速結盟，完成包圍蘇聯。

於是冷戰結束了。

本人漢語國際教育專業，是兩個巴基斯坦留學生的小老師，不得不說他們對老師的態度是真恭敬，除了一些特別的奇葩比較例外。一開始不認識的時候，跟朋友兩個人下樓洗衣服結果投幣壞了，遇到一個巴基斯坦學生，他以為是沒水的原因，給我們打了三趟水一直說：巴基斯坦中國朋友!

中巴友誼靠印度。

中韓友誼靠日本。

中俄友誼靠美國。

其實所有的國家，友誼都是一樣的。包括美的，日本，英美法德。

有利益，大家鐵。

沒利益，大家路人只打招呼。

損壞利益，靠！

中國跟腳盆天天撕逼，和越南天天摩擦，那樣就好啦？

和巴基斯坦沒事搞點經貿互惠互相宣傳互相幫助下，這多好啊

你要說利益第一友誼第二，這也有道理

但是關係好不好，也得考慮一下其它高鄰的襯托不是

我們學校有兩百多個巴基斯坦留學生，我一直想問但不好開口

中科院

話說親兄弟、親父子都有翻臉不認人的時候更別說大國之間的關係了

"Nuanced" is when Napoleon is defeated at Waterloo, bro, not this.

India heavily underestimated China, assuming that China of 1962 would be the same sickly China of 1947.

The Humiliation factor comes from the fact that China and India were supposed to be roughly equivalent countries, or so India assumed, and thus a war between them should have been a stalemate. But China achieved all it"s objectives, and offered ceasefire on it"s own terms.

That was humiliating. China basically whipped and pinned India on the playground in front of the whole school and said, "You want more of this?"

And since I am Pakistani, to offset the usual comments, may I remind you all that pre-1962 war, Pakistan was actually against China, even more so that it was against India, and basically asked India to join forces to press China on the Kashmir boundary issue, something which India rejected.

And in the 62 war itself, we offered silent support and safe passage through Pakistani held areas for the Indian army.

It"s only after India"s utter defeat that we realized, that if some one like India was whipped, there is no way some one like us has any chance against China, so better smooch up to them. Hence the Pak-China friendship, and the shift in our policy.

還有：

Yeah...which is precisely my point!

We gave that after the 62 war! Before the war, we were against them, after the war, we were all friendly to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Karakoram_Tract#Sino-Pakistan_Frontier_Agreement

Note that it happened in "63.

As for the humiliation, it"s directly relevant because that"s what drove us towards China! Your utter defeat made us realize it was in our best interest to be buddies with China.

This isn"t some sort of veiled form of indo-pak internet flamewar, but you have got to admit, China started out from a worse position than India was at 1947, but by 62, it had improved leaps and bounds, and was able to assert itself far more strongly than India could. China made India run to the Kennedy and beg for help; This is made India look weak. More specifically, in chinese cultural terms, it gained "face", and that made all the difference

It isn"t relevant whether India could have won or whatever, because statistics aside, India felt emotionally humiliated.

After Pakistan voted to grant China a seat in the United Nations, the Chinese withdrew the disputed maps in January 1962,

The Indo-China war happened after that.

It was a classic enemy of my enemy is my friend from Pakistan.

I am actually surprised that Pakistan did not attack us during the war. Maybe US which was looking to take India also into its camp pressured Ayub to stand off.

Nope, War was in october-november 62, and negotiations began then too:

After Pakistan voted to grant China a seat in the United Nations, the Chinese withdrew the disputed maps in January 1962, agreeing to enter border talks in March. Negotiations between the nations officially began on October 13, 1962 and resulted in an agreement being signed on 2 March 1963 by foreign ministers Chen Yi of China and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto of Pakistan.

China withdrew maps, but the issue still remained. Only in 63, and finalization of negotiation, did we give the valley, well after the war.

As for Pakistani involvlement in war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War#Involvement_of_other_nations

In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.

看這個：

3 points 3 years ago

In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas.

In retrospect, that doesnt look good since Pakistan did this three years later.

Exactly, Three years later, which makes all the difference, and which is precisely the point I am trying to make.

Before 62 war...India Bad, but China even worse (something along the lines of "better the enemy you know than the one you don"t")
After 62... East or West, China is the Best!

I am not saying that Pakistan was a bastion of good or whatever, merely that our policy shifted heavily after India"s humiliating defeat at "62. We suddenly saw China as our Lord and Savior etc etc...

中國和巴基斯坦以後就算不是生死之交（如果沒了印度的話），也是莫逆之交。比朝鮮、越南、俄羅斯（隨時可以翻臉的傢伙）不知道高到哪裡去。我就只能這樣說了

不會吧，巴基斯坦的地理位置對我們很重要的，我們的國家實力對它們也很重要，總是有利益共同體存在，卻幾乎沒有利益分歧存在，從目前的世界政治局勢來看，至少我們這一輩子是看不到中巴友誼破裂的情況了。