指環王設定中最不科學的地方是什麼？

12-17

這裡說的不是真的科學技術，而是一些人物或者世界觀設定比較奇怪的地方，乍一看沒問題，但仔細想想不符合那個世界的常理

哈這個值得吐槽的就很多了！讓我從時間空間和劇情上從頭吐起。
我真的不是黑，不是黑，不是黑！

首先我們來看一個表格叫做雙樹紀元年表年表 - 魔戒中文維基
這個年表裡有54個事件，其中有29個發生在末尾為0或者5的整數年份……
下圖可以直觀地感受一下密度：

我一個友人吐槽
費諾：Nolofinwe那廝得寸進尺好生可惡，我須得給他點顏色。
【看了一下年曆：1488年】這麼重大的事，怎麼可以在這種時候做，算了，再忍那個半種兩年吧！
（順說一雙樹年大約等於10太陽年）

我深深地理解不能托老和維拉們和精靈的時間觀……

然後讓我們看些細節：

（記得剛剛說1雙樹年約等於10太陽年么？）
維拉們花了50年才下定決心造個太陽月亮？？？
Fingolfin等人在阿門洲東北海岸的一片啥也沒有的冰原寫上住了30年？？？
Maedhros被掛了25年？？？
【我還沒問精靈不吃東西到底能不能活呢……】
【好吧如果維拉一個會能開50年的話，憤怒之戰打了40多年也不足為奇了】

總之永生一族的時間觀和我們是不一樣的。

（答主真的是粉非黑，後面的待我慢慢寫）
來讓我們看看中洲的地圖……
這個是第一紀元的Beleriand地圖【關於這片地區可以圍觀：貝烈瑞安德 - 魔戒中文維基】

吐幾個比較明顯的地理槽點
這片地區有兩大主要水體，左邊那條Sirion河和右邊那條Galion河，都是自北向南流。
【這本身沒啥不合理的，我看過最神奇的一個奇幻作品的地圖，所有的河流都特么是從湖裡發源的……】
然後1處是個大湖泊，湖泊之下是一個大瀑布，瀑布飛流直下，落差極大水量極為豐沛。但是它居然沒有在下面形成一個深潭，居然鑽地變成了一條地下暗河！然後這條地下暗河流了老長一段距離又從地下涌了上來，繼續在地面上奔流到海……
以我粗淺的地理知識我覺得這個大約是地球上見不到的奇觀……

還有我特別不解的是，2處一條河流都木有的地方有辣~~~么大一片森林，然後隔壁3有七條河流的地方居然並沒有什麼樹木0 0

還有啊上面那個小圈圈4，它叫做寬峽谷Tumladen，圖姆拉登谷 - 魔戒中文維基
它的地形大約是高聳的群山環抱中，有一片深且寬闊的大峽谷，寬闊到谷里是片小平原，平原中間有個小山，山上有座城市叫做Gondolin。

【圖作者Ted Nasmith】
我們且不說這種地貌的形成是怎麼做到的……這座城市它在哪裡，沒！有！人！知！道！
這座城裡的精靈原來都住在5那個地區，他們集體遷徙到了Gondolin，沒有人知道他們去了哪裡……可能精靈真的吃得特別少而且那邊從來都沒有山洪這種東西吧，反正他們不光住得下，吃得飽，還過得比外面的世界都要好。
後來發生了一場大戰，這群精靈的王Turgon帶著1W軍隊出來參戰，打完他們這一線全面潰敗，但是Turgon等人逃回Gondolin去了。然而整個過程從他們出來到回去，還是沒有人發現他們住在哪裡！
再後來，當反派魔苟斯終於知道這群傢伙住在哪裡了的時候……他趁他們在過年發動了突襲，結果死在 Gondolin中一個家族手下的半獸人比古往今來被砍死的半獸人都要多0 0
在那以前從來沒有人砍死過炎魔，結果在這一戰中，這群過著過著年被突襲的傢伙砍死了好多，其中有個開掛的人類一個人砍死了6個！

【真的，還是不要跟托老談合理性吧……】

然後讓我們看一下Beleriand陸沉以後的中洲：

這之中我最不能理解的是1魔多，這個三面環山，所有海上吹來的風都會被山所阻的魔多為什麼沒有旱死，請注意它中間那個大湖……是鹹水湖。
【有可能索隆掌握了人工降雨技術？】

還有像什麼大山背後兩條河之間為什麼長了那麼一大片森林什麼的，我都覺得沒有必要奇怪啦……不過總的來說呢，其實這塊地圖已經比Beleriand合理許多了。

哦對了這裡插入一點點跟托老沒關係的吐槽，這個是《霍比特人》電影裡面超級不科學的一點：
首先你看2是剛鐸，3是阿諾爾，所謂南方王國和北方王國是指這兩個國家的相對位置而言，而阿拉貢那個所謂的「北方遊俠」也是指這個。然後所謂的黑森林精靈王國，位於4那個圈兒，孤山位於5那個箭頭。
所以……瑟大王讓兒子去北方找Strider這腦洞簡直突破天際……
如果按照原著的時間線這時候的阿拉貢10歲位於瑞文戴爾，如果按照電影的時間線他大約是27歲位於阿諾爾/剛鐸/洛汗，總之不可能比孤山更靠北了。

【不過其實電影里不科學的東西太多了，咱還是回頭說原著吧……】

再科普一句，托老的設定中夏爾，【位於3那個圈兒里，左下方】的原型是英國鄉村而剛鐸的原型……是……埃……及。
按你為，反正托老是肯定沒有想過英國和埃及那種氣候是怎麼形成的。

10月31日更新………

今兒看著那個矮人如何繁衍的問題，我又想來這裡吐槽了【邏輯呢？】
矮人的繁衍其實也是正常生娃……只是女矮人比較少【不要問我矮人的染色體是啥樣的為啥會造成這種人口結構】，然而矮人全民對X生活，生娃，經營家庭興趣不高所以他們結婚率生育率都偏低……以上都雖然不太正常，但稱不上是bug。

最大的bug在於，矮人是怎麼來的。
矮人是維拉奧力所造，寶鑽里說他首先造了矮人的「七位父親」【現行的譯本好像是譯成七位祖先了】，當然了七個漢子繁衍出一個種族很不可能。但很多人不知道的是，托爾金的信件里提到了當時奧力造的並不只有七個男矮人，還有他們的六個伴侶，也就是說矮人的祖先是七男六女……咳咳，這還沒完，想到奇怪東西的朋友快停下來！最奇葩的點才剛剛要說到：這七男六女是有固定配對的，而那個單著的男矮人叫做都林，他是七位父親中的「最長者」，後來奧力把這六對+一個單身狗的矮人分別放在世界的各個角落讓他們沉睡【因為一如不允許這些「收養的孩子」，比他的親兒子中的年長者，aka精靈，早出生】

【求蘇醒後只見天高地廣獨我一人的都林的心理陰影面積】

所以問題就來了，都林一族是怎麼來的？
要知道……我們認識的那群矮人，梭林、奇力、菲力、巴林、戴因、吉姆利什麼的……他們全都是都林一族！然而當然了，都林一族並不是出芽生殖出來的，他們都是都林周遊各地從另外六對矮人祖先的後代里拐騙來的！！！！

托老你腦洞真大！【我並不想計算都林第一次看到女性矮人時的心理陰影面積】

順說，都林族人認為最長者都林會死後一次次復活，回到族人中來，還用原來的名字aka都林。所以都林一族的王好多都叫都林……從都林一世到都林六世。

後來他們就被炎魔從他們的老家 Khazad-d?m（也就是墨瑞亞）里趕出來了，此後的都林一族國王（包括我們熟悉的梭林·橡木盾）都不叫都林，但有個預言說下一位轉世的都林，會帶領矮人收復Khazad-d?m（我覺得矮人肯定很不喜歡墨瑞亞這個名稱）。當然了這位都林七世最終還是出現了，在第四紀元的某個未知時刻都林七世真的收復了Khazad-d?m……

然而我總是忍不住想這孩子小時候一定活得壓力山大。
啊然而轉念一想，人家阿拉貢還從小被叫做「希望」呢！而且是在世界一片黯淡陰影悄悄崛起的時代被起名叫希望，那時候比爾博還沒找到魔戒呢！嗯結論是還是阿拉貢壓力比較大，都林七世什麼的，反正炎魔已經被甘道夫刷掉了。

甘道夫從此開創了近戰法爺流派～
2016.3.14update======================
雖然很多小夥伴說可以用這傢伙本質上是個邁雅來解釋，但是比起同為邁雅的薩魯曼，甘道夫的近戰技能不知道高到哪裡去啦~
ps：暗搓搓地同你們講，邁雅的設定和天使差不多，比如……ta們都是不分性別的。

可以直接看黑體。

LORD OF THE RATIONALITY

Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo"s side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.
"We cannot," said Frodo. "We must not. Do you not see? It is exactly what the Enemy desires. All of this he has foreseen."
The faces turned to him, puzzled the Dwarves and grave the Elves; sternness in the eyes of the Men; and so keen the gazes of Elrond and of Gandalf that Frodo almost could not withstand it. It was very hard, then, not to grasp the Ring in his hand, and harder still not to put it on, to face them as only Frodo.
"Do you not question it?" Frodo said, thin like the wind his voice, and wavering like a breeze. "You have chosen, of all things, to send the Ring into Mordor; should you not wonder? How did it come to this? That we might, of all our choices, do that single thing our Enemy most desires? Perhaps the Cracks of Doom are already guarded, strongly enough to hold off Gandalf and Elrond and Glorfindel all together; or perhaps the Master of that place has cooled the lava there, set it to trap the Ring so that he may simply bring it out after it is thrown in..." A memory of awful clarity came over Frodo then, and a flash of black laughter, and the thought came to him that it was just what the Enemy would do. Only the thought came to him so: thus it would amuse me to do, if I meant to rule...
There were doubtful glances exchanged within the council; Glóin and Gimli and Boromir were now looking at the Elves more skeptically than before, like they had awoken out of a dream of words.
"The Enemy is very wise," said Gandalf, "and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it -"

"He will think of it!" cried Frodo. He struggled for words, trying to convey things that had once seemed perfect in his comprehension, and then faded like melting snow. "If the Enemy thought that all his foes were moved by desire for power alone - he would guess wrongly, over and over, and the Maker of this Ring would see that, he would know that somewhere he had made a mistake!" Frodo"s hands stretched forth pleadingly.
Boromir stirred, and his voice was doubtful. "You speak fair of the Enemy," said Boromir, "for one of his foes."
Frodo"s mouth opened and shut in desperate bewilderment; for Frodo knew, he knew the Man was mad, but he could think of nothing to say.
Then Bilbo spoke, and his withered voice silenced the whole room, even Elrond who had been about to speak. "Frodo is right, I fear," whispered the old hobbit. "I remember, I remember what it was like. To see with the Black Sight. I remember. The Enemy will think that we might not trust one another, that the weaker among us will propose to destroy the Ring so that the stronger may not have it. He knows that even one not truly good might still cry to destroy the Ring, to make a show of pretended goodness. And the Enemy will not think it impossible that such a decision be made by this council, for you see, he does not trust us to be wise." A whispering chuckle rose from the ancient hobbit"s throat. "And if he did - why, he would still guard the Cracks of Doom. It would cost him little."
Now foreboding was on the faces even of the Elves, and the Wise; Elrond had frowned, and the sharp eyebrows of Gandalf furrowed.
Frodo gazed at them all, feeling a wildness come over him, a despair; and as his heart weakened a shadow came over his vision, a darkness and a wavering. From within the shadow Frodo saw Gandalf, and the wizard"s strength was revealed as weakness, and his wisdom folly. For Frodo knew, as the Ring seemed to drag and weigh on his breast, that Gandalf had not thought at all of history and lore, when the wizard spoke of how the Enemy would not understand any desire save power; that Gandalf had not remembered how Sauron had cast down and corrupted the Men of Númenor in the days of their glory. Just as it had not occurred to Gandalf that the Enemy might learn to comprehend foes of goodwill by looking...
Frodo"s gaze swung to Elrond, but there was no hope there, no answer and no rescue in the shadowy vision; for Elrond had let Isildur go, carrying the Ring from the Cracks of Doom where it should have been destroyed, to the cost of all this war. Not for Isildur"s own sake, not for friendship had it been done, for the Ring had killed Isildur in the end, and far worse fates could have followed him. But the Doom that had stemmed from Isildur"s deed would have seemed unsure to Elrond then, unsure and distant in time; and yet the cost to Elrond himself of taking his sword"s pommel to the back of Isildur"s head would have been surer, and nearer...
As though in desperation, Frodo turned to look at Aragorn, the weathered man who had donned his travel-worn clothes for this council, the heir of kings who spoke softly to hobbits. But Frodo"s vision seemed to double, and in the shadowy second image Frodo saw a Man who had spent too much of his youth among Elves, who had learned to wear humble and stained clothes amid the gold and jewels, knowing he could not match them wisdom for wisdom, and hoping to outplay them in a fashion they would not emulate...
In the sight of the Ring, which was the sight of the Ring"s own Maker, all noble things faded into stratagems and lies, a world of grey and darkness without any light. They had not made their choices knowingly, Gandalf or Elrond or Aragorn; the impulses had come from the dark hidden parts of themselves, the black secret depths which the Ring had rendered plain in Frodo"s vision. Would they outthink the Shadow, when they could not comprehend even their own selves, or the forces that moved them?
"Frodo!" came the sharp whisper of Bilbo"s voice, and Frodo came to himself, and halted his hand reaching up toward where the Ring lay on his breast, on its chain, dragging like a vast stone around his neck.

Reaching up to grasp the Ring wherein all answers lay.
"How did you bear this thing?" Frodo whispered to Bilbo, as if the two of them were the only souls in the room, though all the Council watched them. "For years? I cannot imagine it."
"I kept it locked in a room to which only Gandalf had the key," said his uncle, "and when I began to imagine ways to open it, I remembered Gollum."
A shudder went through Frodo, remembering the tales. The horror of the Misty Mountains, thinking, always thinking in the dark; ruling the goblins from the shadows and filling the tunnels with traps; but for Bilbo wearing the ring that first time not a single dwarf would have lived. And now, Legolas the Elf had told them, Gollum had given up on sending his agents against the Shire, had at last found the courage to leave his mountains and seek the Ring himself. That was Gollum, the fate which Frodo would share himself, if the Ring were not destroyed.
Only they had no way to destroy the Ring.
The Shadow had foreseen every move they could make. Had almost - Frodo still could not imagine how it had been done, how the Shadow had arranged such a thing - had almost maneuvered the Council into sending the Ring straight into Mordor with only a tiny guard set on it, as they would have done if Frodo and Bilbo had not been there.
And having foregone that swiftest of all possible defeats, the only question remaining was how long it would take to lose. Gandalf had delayed too long, delayed far too long to set this march in motion. It could have been so easy, if only Bilbo had set out eighty years earlier, if only Bilbo had been told what Gandalf had already suspected, if only Gandalf"s heart had not silently flinched away from the prospect of being embarrassingly wrong...
Frodo"s hand spasmed on his breast; without thought, his fingers began to rise again toward the vast weight of the chain on which the Ring hung.
All he had to do was put on the Ring.
Just that, and all would become clear to him, once more the slowness and mud would leave his thoughts, all possibilities and futures transparent to him, he would see through the Shadow"s plans and devise an irresistible counterstroke -

- and he would never be able to take off the Ring, not again, not by any will that would be left to him. All Frodo had of those moments were fading memories, but he knew that it had felt like dying, to let all his towers of thought collapse and become only Frodo once more. It had felt like dying, he remembered that much of Weathertop even if he remembered little else. And if he did wear the Ring again, it would be better to die with it on his finger, to end his life while he was still himself; for Frodo knew that he could not withstand the effects of wearing the Ring a second time, not afterward when the limitless clarity was lost to him...
Frodo looked around the Council, at the poor lost leaderless Wise, and he knew they could not defeat the Shadow by their own strength.
"I will wear it one last time," Frodo said, his voice broken and failing, as he had known from the beginning that he would say in the end, "one last time to find the answer for this Council, and then there will be other hobbits."
"No!?" screamed the voice of Sam, as the other hobbit began to rush forward from where he had hidden; even as Frodo, with movement as swift and precise as a Nazg?l, took out the Ring from beneath his shirt; and somehow Bilbo was already standing there and had already thrust his finger through.
It all happened before even Gandalf"s staff could point, before Aragorn could level the hilt-shard of his sword; the Dwarves shouted in shock, and the Elves were dismayed.
"Of course," said Bilbo"s voice, as Frodo began to weep, "I see it now, I understand everything at last. Listen, listen and swiftly, here is what you must do -"

Eliezer Yudkowsky, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality

精靈的智商。。
偏執不等於弱智啊

最不科學的大概是格羅芬德爾……

要是他代替萊戈拉斯加入魔戒聯盟，差不多就不用寫下去了……

兄弟你不會想在指環王裡面找科學吧？壓根就沒有科學而言啊……

法師可以雙持單手武器

魔幻電影，你來個不科學的地方？

法師肉搏啊

請參考廣義相對論中最魔幻的設定

感覺好多bug的…
我方動不動就說兵源不足這邊只有幾百人那邊也只有幾百人了但是最後一出場就千軍萬馬殺都殺不完。半獸人那邊也是忘了具體哪場戰役了反正阿拉貢說了表情凝重的說了一句對方來了一萬人但是最後打起來的時候那場面十萬人也都那樣了。就跟觀眾都沒見過人似的。一邊看著我就一邊回想當年學校五千人在操場召集開會的場面其實五千也就那點兒。
而且半獸人獸人強獸人的戰鬥力還真是讓人不敢恭維感覺完全是靠人海戰術取得優勢的。
最不能忍的是最後巨鷹出現的時候！既然有這種裝備當初直接找只巨鷹馱著弗羅多去魔多不就辦了么非得費那麼大個勁。
而且法拉墨、伊歐溫還有merry都是從戰場上死人堆里被找到帶回來的而且還都活了過來這麼說來打完仗只要願意去找其實能找回來很多倖存者的？