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錢鍾書的英語到底什麼水平?

從小就聽說錢鍾書英語多神多神,今天看到幾篇錢的文章,覺得他的英語句子過於簡單,行文也不順暢,妥妥地看出是非母語。不知我的觀點是否正確?
Author"s Preface
In this book I intended to write about a certain segment of society and a certain kind of people in modern China. In writing about these people, I did not forget they are human beings, still human beings with the basic nature of hairless, two-legged animals. The characters are of course fictitious, so those with a fondness for history need not trouble themselves trying to trace them out.
The writing of this book took two years altogether. It was a time of great grief and disruption, during which I thought several times of giving up. Thanks to Madame Yang Chiang, who continuously urged me on while holding other matters at bay, I was able through the accumulation of many small moments to find the time to finish it. This book should be dedicated to her. But lately it seems to me that dedicating a book is like the fine rhetoric about offering one"s life to one"s country, or handing the reins of the government back to the people. This is but the vain and empty juggling of language. Despite all the talk about handing it over, the book remains like the
flying knife of the magician - released without ever leaving the hand. And when he dedicates his work in whatever manner he chooses, the work is still the author"s own. Since my book is a mere trifle, it does not call for such ingenious disingenuousness. I therefore have not bothered myself about the dedication.
Ch"ien Chung-Shu
December 15, 1946
有興趣的可以多搜索幾篇來看。
----以下是錢的信件--------
第一封信

  My Dear Shu-Wu(1),                 May 14

  Your letter gives me a joyful surprise(2). Your English is astonishingly good. This is not「flannel」nor「butter」(3)but my sincere opinion (my hand upon my heart!). The idea found from your version of Chairman』s statement is, to say the least, quite unjust(4). Perhaps your hand is recovering some of its old cunning momentarily lost through long lack of practice(5). At any rate, it would be a pity-nay, a sin, a crime(6)-to let your(7) English get rusty become finally unserviceable.

  Yours in haste

  By a slip of pen, you wrote「allocation」instead of「Collocation」(.This is a mere peccadillo. Don』t let meticulousness about such trifles cramp your style.
第二封信

  My Dear Lin(1)                      May

  Excuse this belated reply to your very kind May Day greetings(2). Its almost literally「a day after the fair」. What with fixing the mosquito net, queuing for sweets at the co-op store, fetching distributing letters, the thousand and one odds and ends which eat away ones time, the red letter day was over before I know where I was(3). Well(4), here go my best wishes in which my wife joins. Your letter makes me ashamed. I feel guilty like a swindler who has won your「gratitude」without doing anything to earn it. Your characteristic generosity has led you to overestimate the aids to study I gave. Yes, vocabulary is important. Pedagogues used to distinguish a pupils active or (5) writing speaking vocabulary. As you know, the latter is far more extensive than the former. How to turn the supinely passive into the nimbly active—that』s the big problem(6). However, enough of shop talk. Tomorrow to the battle more power to your elbow!(7)

  Yours Sincerely,
第三封信
My Dear Lin(1),

  I am deeply grateful, but I have smiting of conscience(2). As you know, I have my own ration of sugar, I must not deprive you of yours(3). As to the dim sum, a healthy young man has more need of them to stay his hunger(4) between the meals--much more that and old man does. So I am returning them with heartfelt thanks--accompanied with a little token of esteem(5). The latest No. of Broadsheet is worth glancing at.(6)

  Your thankfully


我找了五位美國大學人文方面的老教授,搜集了一下他們的意見

先說明一下:我們只評價三封信。不談錢老的翻譯和其他的英文寫作。其實信是比較好的材料,能夠看出作者真實的口水文寫作水平到底是什麼樣的,發表後的作品一般都是有人改過的。(很多人提到,這三封信寫於特殊時期1971-1972。對比了一下錢老其他的英文寫作,這三封信確實是非同尋常地繞,有點故意讓人看不懂的意味。大家自己辨別吧。有三種可能的解釋,1. 這三封信不能代表錢老正常的手筆,是在隱晦地表達他的意思,但能夠寫得掩人耳目卻仍不失文采,是真的厲害。來自 @瑪德萊娜小蛋糕 。 //2. @米花 給出了符合邏輯的一些情境猜測,按照這些猜測的話,錢老的表達完全沒問題,詳情見第四位老師的評價下的補充。// 3. 當然也不排除錢老的英文可能有點銹了,畢竟他是在1935年去的英國。)


把三封錢先生的信發給了五位教授(均任職於美國排名靠前的一所文理學院,年齡都很大了,在各領域聲望都很高,也都是極好的英文寫手,另外都是我最愛的教授們╮(╯▽╰)╭),告訴他們這是錢鍾書的寫作,請他們客觀地評價一下,得到了一些回饋。我下面會挨個詳細說,可以看出來,他們的性格特點和背景,影響了他們對錢老文字的感受和評價:


第一位,不喜歡錢的文字,認為不太地道:英文系教授,男,美國人英文母語,專長是Old and Middle English, 以及中古時期北歐語言研究,平時改作文對語言使用規範的要求度非常高,平日里對我們的etiquette要求也挺高的。他不喜歡錢先生的文字,覺得只能說是可以理解,但挺蹩腳的,雖然用了很多地道的用法,但還是能看出來是外國人在寫,有一點炫弄的色彩。不是非常差,但只能說是比較「可愛吧cute」,但作者應該是個挺有魅力的外國人。原評價如下:

Well, his letters are understandable in English, but a little unidiomatic. One can tell that a non-native speaker is writing, even though many native expressions are used--like "my hand upon my heart," more power to your elbow," "heartfelt thanks," etc.--almost showing off a bit perhaps.

The first strange sentence is the second one in the letter to Shu-Wu: "This is not "flannel" nor "butter" but my sincere opinion (my hand upon my heart!)." I"ve never seen "flannel" used to mean "soft-stroking," nor "butter" used as a synonym for "flattery," though I know where the writer got the idea--from the expression "to butter someone up," that is, "to flatter," as a verb rather than a noun.

The writing is not terribly awkward, just rather cute--as by a charming foreigner. I"m not sure I would recognize the author as Chinese, except for the reference to dim sum in the third letter.

Nov 18 補充:錢老太厲害了,雖然這位老師說他從來沒見過「flannel」這麼用,但是 @本人已死 提到,字典裡面對這個詞有這麼一條解釋,「British informal indirect or evasive talk; deceiving flattery」,即「英式口語中,用於隱晦地表達奉承」的意思, @本人已死 也找到了flannel作為「奉承」講的例句。也就是說,錢老並沒有用錯,而我的老師從來沒聽說過這個用法。。

第二位:持保留意見,認為語言風格非常優雅、正式,但對他來說有點浮誇:英文系教授,男,英文母語,應該是美國人,本科畢業於牛津,後就讀於耶魯,專長就是英語文學,改作文對語言規範要求也極其高,但個人比較low key。

I don"t know the context of the letters. The style is elegantly formal, perhaps a bit pompous but not unidiomatic, with perhaps the exception of "the idea found from" where one might say "your interpretation of" and "a smiting of conscience" where one might say "an uneasy conscience." And there need to be apostrophes before the possessives in "one"s" and "pupil"s."(這點很有可能不是錢先生的錯,而是typo) Otherwise it"s perfectly good, if not (from my point of view) a little over-elaborate.

第三位:喜歡喜歡我就是喜歡這個寫信的人:比較文學系教授,女,早年是東歐難民(精通多門語言,尤其是俄語和英語),大學和碩士在法國完成,後於哈佛攻讀博士學位。改作文時對語言規範不是很嚴苛,至少不會像前兩位教授那樣,在語言不那麼規範的地方,很重地扣分。她非常喜歡錢這個人,覺得他很詼諧,很逗樂,有一點語言不通的地方,但稍微改一改就好了嘛。(好吧,我承認我自己的反應是和這位老師一毛一樣的。)

The writing samples show a writer with a lively and playful mind, willing to experiment with colloquial expressions. Sometimes, the syntax can be a bit awkward but that can be corrected easily. I like the light humor that comes through.

第四位:中立,能看出來有英國腔:歷史系教授,男,英聯邦國家出生和接受教育,後來美國任教,英語母語,堅守英式英語書寫風格。他改學生作文,對語言書寫規範非常嚴格,連標點符號、用詞、冠詞、大錯小錯等等,所有的都會改,但是不會拿這些扣分。他說錢的文字非常sophisticated,然後指出了三處錯,最後說的這一句我服了,他說這個人看起來就像是一個熟悉 telegraphic style、上世紀二三十年代大英帝國的人。telegraphic style 就是為了文法的精巧,故意刪除一些語法上必要的詞,但是總體上句義是清晰的。不愧是歷史系教授,連時間地點都能說出來。。難不成錢先生對英文的使用習慣,是在牛津那兩年固定下來的?

這個老師後來找到我,給我指出了幾個其他的小錯誤,我看了一下,都比較像是typo,前面也有教授說到過。但他沒有提冠詞的問題,也沒有提其他的一些用詞。

My first reaction is mixed. Some of the writing is quite sophisticated and solid familiar communication, but three phrases ("The idea found from," "here go my wishes," and "smiting of conscience") ring false. Others sound like a Briton of the 1920s or 1930s writing familiar notes in telegraphic style.

補充:對「the idea found from」 的一點討論:無論是老師的回復,還是其他知友的討論,都很多次提到了這個表達,我最初的評價是這樣的,【別再浪費時間爭「the idea found from」這個表達的用法了!!重點不在於idea可以怎麼用,可以表達哪些詞義,而在於這個說法是不是符合語言習慣。舉個例子,有個外國人這麼說中文,「聽到了這個消息,我樹在原地,動彈不得」。「樹」用在這裡不是完全錯的,只不過母語者可能不那麼講的啦。。the idea found from根本就是不地道的!!】 但永遠都有討論的空間, @米花 在評論里提了一個我覺得比較符合邏輯的說法:【關於「the idea found from」,我有一個猜測,林書武當時可能因為翻譯毛的文章,用詞發生歧義或者誤讀,被理解成抹黑領袖之類,而受到了批評。錢鍾書在此的意思是,你的翻譯讀是不出那層意思的,他們硬要讀出那層意思,是不對的。】按照這個邏輯的話,錢老在這裡的遣詞造句,又沒有什麼問題了。有人或許會說,從語言層面上來講,沒表達清楚意思就是語言不好,但在書信寫作的時候,雙方認為彼此on the same page,是完全合情合理的。


補充:第五位:非常厲害的英文。終於等到這位教授的評價了,這位教授是五位中對語言鑒賞最權威的,也最客觀的,他終於給出回復了!!他的專長就是英語語言研究,是學校writing center裡面最權威的advisor,也是最負盛名的英文寫作老師。他給出的評價很全面,說這些文字看起來有點太正式了,而且現代人可能聽不習慣(即便是英語母語者也會有相同的感覺)。但寫信人對英文的掌握讓人印象深刻。有些不影響理解的小錯,寫信人能非常嫻熟地使用英語習語,行文的節奏聲韻很自然,能夠運用比喻,而且對辭彙的掌握水平很高。這個老師說他個人認為,寫信的人應該是一位很有才華的人。

A very interesting question you pose and it is difficult to evaluate texts such as these with out some sense of the context, but although the writing may seem a bit formal and perhaps stilted to our modern ears (as much English, even of native speakers would I think), I think the control of English language itself is very impressive here. There are, of course, a few spelling errors and a couple missing articles (答主注: 前面幾位老師也有提及這點,這些是因為我直接copy了網站的原文,很難考證這些是錢先生犯的錯還是typo,但我傾向於相信是typo), but those are merely surface level errors that do not interfere with meaning in any significant way. What is impressive is how well the writer grasps English idiom and is able to reproduce a natural sounding cadence of the English sentence and use figurative language (metaphors and similes e.g. "I feel like a swindler . . "). Also the writing demonstrates a very high level of vocabulary.

So I personally would judge this writing to be of a very caliber, and well, you know my reputation.

所以綜合來看,五位教授對錢先生書信中的英文,評價不太一致(第一位教授感覺非常一般,後幾位評價較高)。就從錢先生這三封信來看,錢老的英文寫作流暢度偶有不足,但行文優雅,辭藻華麗,文學修養深厚。(至於讀者喜不喜歡辭藻華麗的文字,仁者見仁智者見智。但用得出用不出,是水平問題。)不能與英文權威相媲美,不太可能不經過外文編輯,出版英文作品。不過,有些人行文規矩不犯錯,或許可以成為學術作文的範本,美國校園這些人不是一抓一大把嘛,但是,沒有深厚的經典熏陶和長年的書寫積累,卻難以做到語出驚人。(就像Amherst @先鋒谷 說的,普通人就不要嘗試錢先生這種風格了,錢鍾書的英語到底什麼水平? - 先鋒谷的回答 - 知乎)


以上是基於錢老的三封信,對錢老英文寫作的評價,如果有人稱讚錢老的英文口語表達,說

錢鍾書在美國講學,僅憑其操英語的口才,即令四座吃驚,一位在哈佛大學研究院工作多年的美國學者說,他在美國長這麼大,生平從未聽過像這樣漂亮的英語,算來算去只有哈佛的一位語言學教授的英語水平差堪同錢相媲婉美。

應該是可信的。畢竟寫作對語言規範度的要求更高,但口語就沒有那麼嚴苛。以他這幾封信表現出來的英文儲備之深,以他對西學的稔熟,以他一貫喜歡多少有點pompous的風格來看,講學中有人這樣評價錢老的口語,或許有誇張成分,但應該是有可能的。//Nov 18 補充:經後續考證,有人這麼誇錢老,一點不誇張,而且是完全可信的。


--------------------------------------分割線---------------------------------------------------

提個醒,英語學習者,還是要追求語言簡潔正確,邏輯清晰條理。

//原答案如下//

想笑。就 @Burris Ewell 的標準,莎士比亞應該是最臭名昭著、虛有其名的作家了吧:各種inversion、用詞不當、high style、普通人看不懂,哈哈


 斜川冷笑道:「看的是不是燕子庵,人境廬兩家的詩?」
 「為什麼?」
 「這是普通留學生所能欣賞的二毛子舊詩。東洋留學生捧蘇曼殊,西洋留學生捧黃公度。留學生不知道蘇東坡,黃山谷,心目間只有這一對蘇黃。我沒說錯罷?還是黃公度好些,蘇曼殊詩里的日本味兒,濃得就像日本女人頭髮上的油氣。」
 蘇小姐道:「我也是個普通留學生,就不知道近代的舊詩誰算頂好。董先生講點給我們聽聽。」
 「當然是陳散原第一。這五六百念年,算他最高。我常說唐以後的大詩人可以把地理名字來概括,叫『陵谷山原』。三陵:杜少陵,王廣陵——知道這個人么?——梅宛陵;二谷:李昌谷,黃山谷;四山:王半山,陳後山,元遺山;可是只有一原,陳散原。」說時,翹著左手大拇指。鴻漸懦怯地問道:「 不能添個『坡』字么?」
 「蘇東坡,他差一點。」
 鴻漸咋舌不下,想蘇東坡的詩還不入他法眼,這人做的詩不知怎樣好法,便問他要剛才寫的詩來看。蘇小姐知道斜川寫了詩,也向他討,因為只有做舊詩的人敢說不看新詩,做新詩的人從不肯說不懂舊詩的。斜川把四五張紙,分發同席,傲然靠在椅背上,但覺得這些人都不懂詩,決不能領略他句法的妙處,就是讚美也不會親切中肯。這時候,他等待他們的恭維,同時知道這恭維不會滿足自己,彷彿鴉片癮發的時候只找到一包香煙的心理。紙上寫著七八首近體詩,格調很老成。辭軍事參贊回國那首詩有:「好賦歸來看婦靨,大慚名字止兒啼」 ;憤慨中日戰事的詩有:「直疑天似醉,欲與日偕亡」;此外還有:「清風不必一錢買,快雨瑞宜萬戶封」;「石齒漱寒瀨,松濤瀉夕風」;「未許避人思避世,獨扶淺醉賞殘花」。可是有幾句像:「潑眼空明供睡鴨,蟠胸秘怪媚潛虯」; 「數子提攜尋舊跡,哀蘆苦竹照凄悲」;「秋氣身輕一身過,鬢絲搖影萬鴉窺」 ;意思非常晦澀。鴻漸沒讀過《散原精舍詩》,還竭力思索這些字句的來源。他想蘆竹並沒起火,照東西不甚可能,何況「凄悲」是探海燈都照不見的。「 數子」明明指朋友並非小孩子,朋友怎可以「提攜」?一萬隻烏鴉看中詩人幾根白頭髮,難道「亂髮如鴉窠」,要宿在他頭上?

——《圍城》第三章


處女答得了這麼多贊有點嚇到了= =

看到有人說沒看懂,其實這答案和錢老的英語水平並沒有太大關係,但和答案中仗著托福滿分雅思X分說我英語水平應該比錢老好一點點的有關係,抖個小機靈而已,翻翻下面的評論自然就懂。

另外看到 @周思勤 的評論——

當時看《圍城》還真沒太注意,當時只是覺得這些人很可笑。現在看我覺得這一段至少還透露出這麼個意思:某些自詡為高級知識分子的人,看了幾本書,留了個學,就認為自己天下無敵,看不起這個看不起那個,就他自己才學無兩,聰明蓋世,殊不知自己水平不行看所有人都是傻子,真不知道他們是哪裡來的這自信。我記得我小時候看杜甫的詩,看不懂,覺得這有什麼好的?用詞又不華麗,句子又沒有李白那樣的氣勢,讀起來不甚爽快。直到有一天,我讀《石壕吏》的時候,讀到最後一句「天明登前途,獨與老翁別」,突然一下開悟了,登時哭了出來,這個時候我才知道杜甫詩的好啊。

也有一點這個意思。其實答主也是一樣,初中的時候看完了《圍城》和錢老的文學研究著作,加上當時有一些投稿上上地方小報,覺得錢老或許是世界上最聰明的人,自己就該是第二。現在想起來,錢老是不是第一且不論,後面部分簡直是笑話。

答主是個做日語文學翻譯的,英語水平不高不敢妄論,只是想起學日語的時候,身邊有不少人覺得N1拿了滿分,就有資格做學術了;當時自己也在做一些合同之類的翻譯,甚至自己都有覺得N1拿了滿分日語應該不錯了。正經做了文學翻譯之後才發現不過冰山一角,慚愧不已。

還是慎言篤行吧。


一開始我也比較認同一些英語專業和英語母語者的答案,但是後來有些問題想討論一下。

比如說,當我初中高中看魯迅的文章,我也在懷疑魯迅會不會說中國話。

我平時讀美國小說和新聞比較多,像一些北歐移民寫的東西和母語者的寫作差異有時候都能感覺出來。但是當我去讀 60 年代英國人寫的圖靈傳記的時候,我覺得自己根本讀的不是英語(當然其實我熟悉的是現代美語)。後來我接觸到《福爾摩斯傳記》的英文版,裡面模仿倫敦報紙語氣的口氣也是我幾乎理解不了的(所以中文版用文言口氣翻譯確實傳神)。

被動語態的優劣我不是專業不好具體評價。而且我也經常用被動語態。但是我對「被動語態」最深刻的印象是美國政評家說從小布希開始政客開始越來越愛用被動語態,最經典的就是「mistake has been made」。給被動語態披上了一層「正確的廢話」的色彩。

我覺得英語作為一個拼寫只統一了 400 年的語言,用我們的感覺去評判 60 年前的作家是否準確。如果考慮到我們連民國白話都感覺不舒服的話。


While English is my native language, I』m hardly a literary academic. But if asked for my thoughts on how good Qian Zhongshu』s English writing is, here』s what I』ll say. It』s pretty damn impressive.


My first impression is that his writing is incredibly articulate, scholarly, and gentlemanly. Like the other person, Mr. Lin, says, his English is astonishingly good. Astounding, stunning, and unbelievable are also words that come to mind to describe his level of English writing, especially for someone whose English is his second language.


I』ll put it this way. You could put Mr. Qian』s passage side by side with nine other passages written by well-recognized, native English writers. Then ask highly educated, native English speakers to identify the one written by a non-native English speaker. I』m certain they couldn』t do it.


His writing style and quality definitely comes from another era. Overall, you just don』t see writing so articulate and words expressed so poetically anymore. I believe the writing style of most people these days (mine included) who claim or pretend to be writers is straightforward and colloquial, with an emphasis on simplicity and being down-to-earth. Bottom-line to me is, Mr. Qian』s quality of writing is as good as it gets, even if you』re using native English writers as a benchmark for comparison.

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那些喜歡我關於英語方面回答的朋友們,你該看看我下周四 (12月15號)晚上8點的知乎Live,我會談到如何更自信更有效的與外國人用英語交流。我還會從一個外國人,CEO,及老闆的角度,分享一些見解及實用的小貼士。歡迎加入!


For those of you who like my posts to English-related, Zhihu questions, you should join my upcoming Zhihu Live broadcast (Thurs, 12/15) on How To Communicate More Confidently And Effectively To Foreigners In English. I』ll be sharing a lot of insights and practical tips from the perspective of a foreigner, CEO, and boss. Hope you』ll join me!


詳情請點擊:如何有效地用英語與外國人溝通

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/24096833

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更多職業發展的精彩內容和專業知識,遠見和建議,請關注職商網微信公眾號:職商網(zhishangcq),我的個人微信公眾號:Larry聊職商(LarryWangABC),點擊鏈接訪問職商網:http://www.zhishangwang.com,知乎專欄:Larry聊職商,我司微信公眾號:王李亞洲資源( wangliyazhou ) ,微博@Larry Wang王承倫,LinkedIn:Larry Wang


http://weixin.qq.com/r/KHXs9ArE5FebrU6X9yA6 (二維碼自動識別)


歪個樓,針對 @Burris Ewell的回答說幾點

她認為clairvoyant錢鍾書的用法不對,理由如她本人所說:

這裡,我傾向於認為clairvoyant這個詞是錯用。這個詞的意思是「千里眼」,「具有特異的預知未來功能的」,但是這個詞在英文里一般被嚴格限制於特定環境使用,就是在一些高魔設定下,一個人真的有「千里眼」這個功能,才會用這個詞來形容他,而一般不被用於寫作當中去比喻一個人「聰明」,「別人不用說他就提前明白」。

可這種說法是錯的。clairvoyant並沒有嚴格限定於特定環境使用,也並非說一個人必須有「千里眼」才能用這個詞來形容他,隨便找找谷歌的名人名言就知道了

這句話並沒有嚴格的環境設定吧?我們來看形容人的:

這裡的clairvoyant直接用於名詞,但結合整句話可以看出,這裡的clairvoyant並不是指真正有「千里眼」的人吧??

例子還有很多,搜搜vocabulary的例句就知道了

都是從知名雜誌里選取出來的例句。以上可以看出這幾句中的clairvoyant用法並沒有像你所說限制於「高魔」的設定下對吧?也沒有說裡面所形容的人一定是「千里眼」對吧?並且這些clairvoyant的用法還正如你所反對的:就是用於形容」別人不說他就提前明白「。

回過頭來看錢鍾書的句子

"Yes, my clairvoyant Stuart, I have been working entirely on my own."

其實這句話對應的翻譯有小小的歧義,錢鍾書的意思很明顯:Stuart先生,你真是有先知的力量。沒錯,我就是一直在自己完成這件事的。

由於沒有上下文,不知道錢所指是什麼事情,按照Burris的說法,他在自學法語。那麼揣摩一下這句話,就可以大概推測這個Stuart先生在之前的信中說出他本人知道錢的法語是自學的,錢收到信後,大為吃驚,就好像那種「卧槽!你怎麼知道!!」的心情,所以這裡的clairvoyant就是一種比喻的用法,一種稱讚Stuart的「聰明」罷了。

錢鍾書這句話優不優美我不知道,但起碼詞用的是沒錯的。

第二點,Burris答案里稱英語是強調準確性的語言,並舉了個例子:

被動語態:Mary was frightened---被誰和什麼frightened?不知道。

主動語態:Jacob"s unrefined manner frightened Mary---比上一句好得多。

英語是不是強調準確性語言我不知道,畢竟這句話太籠統;但例子里的第一句話「Mary was frightened」並沒有什麼錯誤的地方,甚至是十分地道的說法,這點無論在日常對話還是書寫都能看出,就好比「I was scared" 一樣都成固定句式了,例子也是一搜一堆,就不放上來了;至於被誰和什麼frightened,我實在是懶得反駁這點。還有說第二句比第一句好的,第二句確實能告訴人更多的信息,但信息多並不一定好,有點寫作常識的都知道這點,所以兩句話沒有優劣之分;還是那句話,脫離文本對句子進行比較就是耍流氓。

還有,Burris所說的「所有英語國家的英文老師都會強調盡量使用主動語氣」,我想不到身為英文編輯竟會說出這樣的話。主動也好被動也好,從來就沒有多用少用的區別,脫離文本談句子我也是服。

太多了,Burris的這篇答案硬傷真是太多了,我真的懷疑她的水平能夠勝任英文編輯。

繼續說吧,Burris一直抓著不放的:

The idea found from your version of Chairman"s statement is, to say the least, quite unjust.

這句話乍一看確實很有歧義,如果根據翻譯所表達的意思,我認為Burris的版本確實更清楚些一些

My opinion on your translation of the chairman』s statement was quite unfair.

但別忘了,這是兩人之間的來信,如果像Burris所說:「The idea」不知道是誰的idea,那隻能推測兩人曾經就已經就這個idea討論過了,所以這裡用的是「THE」,而不用「my」,因為收信人知道錢鍾書的意思。錢本來就不是寫給外人看的,如今公布出來我們發現了歧義太正常了。你能完全聽得懂兩個陌生人之間的談話嗎?逗

關於Burris所說的unjust用法,又錯了。看圖吧

unfair本來和unjust就是同義詞,兩者在這裡都可以互用。

講真,說話前真應該好好查查資料。

還有這段話:

同樣剛才那個句子---The idea found from your version of Chairman"s statement, to say the least, is quite unjust。此句中,"to say the best"這個插入語幾乎完全沒有必要,因為後面的」quite unjust」—「非常不正義」是一個在英文語境下非常嚴重的指控,可錢卻說「有些人對你的評論,往好了說,是非常不正義的。」往好了說都非常不正義,那還能怎麼往壞了說?

@Burris Ewell 你知道你在說什麼嗎?再好好看看你自己寫的。

還有關於副詞的用法...唉,槽點實在太多,不想寫了。唯一沒有毛病的就是關於Chairman"s statement前定冠詞的爭議,我認為是應該加上THE。至於錢為什麼沒有加,可能的原因有很多,但不能因為這一點就全盤否認了錢的水平對嗎?

讓我有些生氣的是下面她寫的這段(還打錯了一個單詞,我給補上了)

錢鍾書:

Your letter makes me ashamed. I feel guilty like as swindler who has won your "gratitude" without doing anything to earn it. Your characteristic generosity has led you to overestimate the aids to study I gave. Yes, vocabulary is important. Pedagogues used to distinguish a pupil"s active... or writing and speaking vocabulary.

Verdict: 中式英語

您這是幾個意思啊?直接寫上了「中式英語」就完事了啊?您倒是解釋解釋啊,這跟那些噴子留下的「呵呵」有什麼區別?現在很多人老莫名地借著「中式英語」的借口就亂批一通,轉身就走,挺厲害唄?倒是說說看為啥這是中式英語啊?莫名其妙。

人與人的水平不一樣,你可以認為錢的英文好,也可以認為他不怎麼樣,這很正常。但是你亂說話就不對了,起碼拿出點乾貨來支持你的觀點吧?

我個人是反對造神的,錢鍾書也是普通人,他也有個人、時代等的局限,喜歡的就欣賞,不喜歡的看看笑笑就好了,但如果要發表觀點,還是希望認真一些。

行了,就這麼多吧。
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@Burris Ewell 針對評論回復:

1、關於clairvoyant的用法,我舉得例句已經說得很清楚了,比如引用Log Angels Times其中一句:

It initially felt like Rivers was just being nice; now it feels like he was clairvoyant.

這個詞在這裡並沒有像你原先答案里說的運用在「高魔」的設定下,和只用於形容真正有「千里眼」的人對吧?這個詞更多的用法像是用於比喻,形容一個人有眼力見,腦子很聰明,而不是真的說這個人能看清未來。它之所以給人感覺彆扭,無非就是見得少,不知道具體在什麼情境下用。而回到錢鍾書的原話,他更像是在形容Stuart十分聰明,前面那個Yes,就像是承認了自己被Stuart看穿了,翻譯一下就像,「Stuart先生,您真是有預見的能力!沒錯,我就是一直在自學法語。」畢竟沒有文本,你單單拿這句子去問native speaker,人家肯定會覺得怪。

2、我前面引用的是從http://vocabulary.com里的解釋,既然你認為不夠權威,那我手頭有本韋伯大字典第十一版,看看上面對這兩個詞的解釋吧

看清楚了么?很明顯了,這兩個詞就是同義詞。是,我承認,unjust和unfair是有不同的地方,畢竟是兩個不一樣的詞,但在絕大多數情況下,兩個詞還是可以互用的。錢鍾書這裡的用法,我並沒有覺得有不妥之處。

另外,韋伯還給了同義詞的定義:

Synonyms are words that mean the same thing.

這兩個詞,還有異議么?

3、關於主動被動語氣,本身就看你寫的是什麼類型的文章,嚴肅的non-fiction如論文就該多用主動,但fiction novel之類的就沒有這種規則。「多用主動」這種說法,說白了,就是說給那些英文駕馭能力不高的人聽的,不僅不限於中國人,就是native speaker也不是人人都有很高的英文水平,就像很多中國人的中文寫作水平很糟糕一樣,模板也就運應而生了。借用Verbal advantage里的一句話:

...It"s a mistake to assume that every rule about language is a good rule, and the best writers know that it"s sometimes necessary to break a rule to achieve a desired effect.

4、錢鍾書那句話的插入語是to say the least,你寫成了to say the best. 原句除了定冠詞外,沒有任何問題。關於副詞的用法,還是要看文章,不是像你原話所說

什麼quite, rather, probably, seriously, basically, as far as I can tell 亂七八糟的,寫出來的句子往往是一種「低級的冗長」,真正好的英文寫作很少濫用這些副詞。

這種一概而論是不是有些不負責任呢?

5、你那篇回答中的漏洞太多,我懷疑很正常。但你既然都已經做了這份工作,那說明很多人都已經相信了你的能力,我的懷疑也就無所謂了。

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半年前寫的答案,今天莫名其妙收到了很多人的關注,一下漲了幾十個贊還有些批評諷刺的聲音,我有些不知所措。

但既然被翻出來了,我重新以現在的自己看了看半年前的我,有些觀點也發生了變化,發現以前寫的東西還是很幼稚的。這次更新,就當做話題的終結吧。

我寫這個答案的時候,並沒有想攻擊或者貶低誰,我本身對錢的英文不算了解,更多隻關注他的散文和小說。熟悉錢的人都知道,他主要的學術貢獻還是在中文界。英文,乃至於他了解的其它語言,對於他來說,應該算是一種輔助的手段吧。需要承認的是,在這次爭辯中我是偏向錢鍾書的,而身在局中的人難免會被蒙蔽雙眼,可能無法做出公正地客觀的判決,因此,我不敢說我的之前論點是正確的,而且我確信其中還有錯誤的地方,但最起碼我敢保證我所說的不是為捧而捧或是為黑而黑。

上面的話說清楚了,接下來我要做的並不是繼續圍繞著原先的問題爭論。我知道在網上想要說服別人或是被別人說服基本上是不可能的,所以下面我不會再堅持錢鍾書的水平究竟是高是低,我僅將我認為有用且客觀的信息傳給讀者,請讀者們自行判斷

1、關於Clairvoyant的用法,我覺得我之前的解釋是有不足的,而且顯得很牽強,但現在我也不願再多說。我們原先所爭論的問題僅僅只在一句話中體現,我認為這是不妥的,一句話脫離了文本就很容易失去原先的意義。我把錢鍾書的那篇書信貼在下面,各位可以自己判斷到底Clairvoyant這裡用的恰不恰當。

My Dear Stuart,

We are overjoyed at your generously long letter. We have been rather worried about you since your reticent Xmas card from Spain. We thought that your indignation at the Fascist terrors might have made you join the Spanish Republican army on leaving Oxford. In that case, the world would certainly gain a hero, but we might (O horrible thought!) lose a friend. You can imagine our relief to hear from you again.

We are very, very sorry indeed to hear about your viva. we do hope that it will not be prejudicial to your chances of getting a job. As your favorite Walter Raleigh used to say, Oxford final schools and the Last Judgement are two examinations, not one. You are quite right to take the whole thing lightly.

We shall be here for another four or five months yet. My scholarship expires this August, and we shall sail home in September. Not that we have homes to return to! Our houses, spared by the shell-fire, have been looted and gutted of all their valuable contents. Our respective families have taken refuge in mountains honeycombed with bandits. My wife lost her mother, and I myself have no prospect whatsoever of getting decent jobs in China. Still, one"s lot is with one"s own people; I don"t mind roughing it a bit. The revolution of the Fortune"s wheel might bring us up, and, as Goethe was fond of saying, abwarten Sie. You see, I spare my own patriotic heroics.

Yes, my clairvoyant Stuart, I have been working entirely on my own. I have tried to read French literature systematically downwards, beginning with Villon, and already got as far as the mid-nineteenth century. I have also laboriously tackled the German romantics. I am reading Taine"s novel Graindorge and Novalis"s Fragmente. Besides, I have not neglected my English and Chinese studies. I am reading——no, I am not going to tell you my reading debauches. This paragraph reads already like a snippet from that model letter of a schoolboy to his parents (" or parent according to circumstances") in Anstey"s Vice Versa.

The baby is burstingly fat. She already boasts of six teeth (each tooth meaing a week or so of worries and sleeplessness on her part as well our own). She is very naughty and mutinous and self-willed, altogether an ugly customer to deal with. She will be able to walk a little next month.

You are a disquieting feller, my dear Stuart. You always give me the impression of some impending catastrophe. Why this sudden "treachery" to your "former interests"? You seem to have a gout trop facilement degoute. Your mind seems to slough its idea as frequently as the snakes their skins. No doubt you will call me smug and incorrigible. Do keep me abreast of your lastest developments.

My wife sends you her best wishes, to which I say ditto. Write to me at your earliest convenience.

Yours ever,
Chung-shu Tchi"ien

P.S. My wife wants me to tell you that the baby is really "her father"s daughter". She loves nothing so much as books——to tear and nibble at, certainly not to read. She has already destroyed a German primer, not to mention innumerable tradesmen"s circulars and booklets. She throws away her toys to grab at the books we happen to be reading.

註:評論區有知友對這個詞提供了不同的見解,歡迎移步。

2、關於主動被動。奧威爾曾寫過一篇叫《政治和英語語言》的文章,他在裡面就提到了寫作的幾個要素,分別是:

  • Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
  • Never use a long word where a short one will do.
  • If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
  • Never use the passive where you can use the active.
  • Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of
    an everyday English equivalent.
  • Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

在第四點,奧威爾就提出了能使用主動語態就別用被動語態。奧威爾被譽為是簡潔英文寫作的先驅和代表人物,他所提出的上面幾條規則都是為簡化寫作所服務的。而少用被動語態這種說法即使不是起源於此,那也和奧威爾的這篇文章有很大的關係。事實上,我個人非常喜歡奧威爾這個作家,他的文章簡易好讀是一回事,他的筆力也非常強勁,遣詞的功力可謂一流。但我認為如果沒有奧威爾的筆法,按照簡易寫作的套路就容易看起來很幼稚。
在這篇文章結尾段,奧威爾特意提出:

I have not here been considering the literary use of language, but merely language as
an instrument for expressing and not for concealing or preventing thought.

各位自己判斷吧。我更希望大家能去找原文看看。

3、關於中式英語(Chinglish)。在討論這個之前,我覺得有些人有必要移步:Chinglish,先給自己科普科普,別把自己認為的中式英語就當作是中式英語了。中式英語雖然不太受人待見,但也比有些人腦袋裡想的複雜得多,請認認真真的看完再回來。

如果看完了你還覺得我是按照Chinglish的思路來回答的,那麼請你:

  • 做個有素質的人,不要像噴子一樣留下個「呵呵」就走
  • 解釋一下我哪裡Chinglish了,為什麼呢?

只要講道理,咱們都可以談。

4、關於其它原先爭論過的,我就不說了,各位見仁見智、自己判斷吧。有問題可以討論。

5、各位如果真想了解錢英文的水平,請移步:amazon.cn 的頁面。
換位思考看看,如果你是位作家,你希望別人是從你和他人來往的書信來評判你的水平高低,還是希望別人從你已經發表的作品來評判呢?

最後,我不指望我所寫的東西能改變什麼,更多的,我反而希望每個人有每個人的觀點。其實錢鍾書在這點上反而還很大度,他在首次中美比較文學會議上的演講就說:

At meeting of our sort, perfect agreement is not so essential, nor perhaps is it desirable...

Unison, after all, may very well be not only a synonym of, but also a euphemism for, monotony.

以上

P.S. 覺得挺可悲的。這個問題下有多少人真的看過錢老的牛津畢業論文,又有多少人看得懂。洋洋洒洒百頁的英文可以當作範本供我們學習,乃至作為標準去批判,可我們卻以他的私人信件去指手畫腳,藉此來掩蓋自己的心虛,還不忘沾沾自喜以為看得懂就可以隨意批評。把我噁心壞了。


只說乾貨吧, @Burris Ewell 先說結論:說錢鍾書英文差的@Burris Ewell才是英文很差。原因如下:

(附上@Burris Ewell說錢鍾書英文差的貼子地址:錢鍾書的英語到底什麼水平? - Burris Ewell 的回答 我下面說的是該帖中的錯誤)

【先截圖指出他貼子中的錯誤①】:

【他的錯誤①】:他說idea沒有「他人評價,看法,意見」的意思,應該用opinion。
然而idea本身就有opinion的意思,證據如下:

【總結1】所以idea本身就有opinion的意思。
所以他說的 「idea沒有「他人評價,看法,意見」的意思,應該用opinion。」 的言論是錯的。

【然後再截圖指出他貼子中的錯誤之二】:

【他的錯誤之二】:他以為version在這裡的意思是版本。實際上version在這裡的意思是譯本。version本身就有譯本的意思。證據如下:

【總結2】所以version本來就有translation和譯本的意思,@Burris Ewell的意思是必須把version換成translation或者變成your version of the translation。那豈不成了:your translation of the translation了嗎?他說錢想到版本才用version說明錢是中式思維,然而真正以為version是版本的意思的是他,真正中式思維的是他 ---- @Burris Ewell。所以他這又錯了啊。整個貼子都是這樣的你們自己挑,我是截圖標註的都累了,下面說結論吧。

【結論】@Burris Ewell英語很差。我很喜歡挑錯的行為,也從來不是錢粉,但他挑的錯很多都不是錯誤,而是正確的,反倒暴露出了他英語的不足。但是這也是一個好消息:如果你英語特別差的話,不用擔心,起碼你還能找到一份英語編輯的工作。

【影響】thebeijinger的牌子砸了。以後大家想起thebeijinger這個網站,就會跟英語差聯繫在一起。


這個問題有什麼好吵的。。。高票答案的外國人說的基本是正確的。當代的英語母語寫作者,即使是媒體人(the Vox generation)已經沒人會這樣寫英文了。這不僅僅是因為這樣的行文風格對對辭彙和技法有很高的要求,也是書面英語本身演化的結果。如果你現在拿著這樣的prose去投稿,多半會被編輯退回來,被懷疑是在炫技。

比如這樣的句子

The characters are of course fictitious, so those with a fondness for
history need not trouble themselves trying to trace them out.

還有這樣的句子,形容節日雜事繁多的景象

What with fixing the mosquito net, queuing for sweets at the co-op
store, fetching distributing letters, the thousand and one
odds and ends which eat away one"s time, the red letter day was over
before I know where I was

或者更誇張的例子,破折號後面加「nay」

At any rate, it would be a pity--nay, a sin, a crime--to let your English get rusty become finally unserviceable.

這幾個句子,不能說是結構本身有多麼複雜,而是風格略顯archaic。總之就是時代不同了,如果這種帶有學究氣的行文能掌握好,對付當代的文體標準是綽綽有餘的吧。


重新整理了一下自己在這個問題下的一些討論,首先要註明的是:以下文字並不能直接說明錢鍾書的英語水平如何,但至少能提供一些錢鍾書學習英語時的歷史背景和成長經歷,畢竟用三頁紙評定一個人的英文水平或成就有失公允。

【題外話】「電視」一詞就是由錢鍾書從英語翻譯成中文的。

A、民國教育水平的落後是否會導致錢鍾書的英文差?
首先必須承認,民國時期的整體教育水平是落後的,無論基礎教育還是高等教育,在整體上都遠落後於今天(可能在中國文學方面比今天好)。但是,普遍水平是無法解釋少數個體的成才的,因為還是有一些出身很好的人集中獲得了那時很少的優勢資源,得到某種意義上的精英教育,每個時代都存在那些幸運的少數人,錢鍾書就是這樣的少數特例之一。當年時代大環境是差的,但某個小環境是好的,比如無錫錢家就是江南地區很有名的文化家族,他們家族不止出了錢鍾書,還有錢穆,錢鍾韓,錢偉長——以上算近親,以下算遠親——錢臨照、錢令希、錢逸泰等等。錢鍾書的父親錢基博即被視為國學大家,,華中師範大學正在出版《錢基博集》,可能還沒出全。

個人覺得,像錢鍾書這樣的人是教不出來,他是自己學出來的。

錢鍾書有很好的家庭背景,他的父親錢基博曾擔任清華大學、上海聖約翰大學、光華大學(華東師大前身)等大學的國文系教授,當時的普通教授月薪平均為300元左右(1927年教育行政委員會規定,大學教師分為四等,每等薪酬又分三級,按月支付。教授月薪400—600元,副教授260—400元,講師160—260元,助教100—160元。——具體參見吳艷茹:《制度規約下的大學教師職業生涯研究》),當時小學老師的月薪大約為40元(具體參見陶孟和:《北平生活費之分析》),而當時清華大學一年的學費就是300多元(具體參見《清華周刊》第35卷第11—12期),所以當年沒錢是上不到清華的(當時北平學生圈的流行語是:北大老,師大窮,唯有清華好通融)。

想必很多人都看過錢鍾書的《石語》,這本小書生動形象地描繪了一個二十齣頭的大學生和一位七八十歲的詩壇領袖談笑風生的場景(陳衍的水平不知比你們高到哪裡去了╮(╯▽╰)╭)。

B、錢鍾書在中學時期是否打下了良好的英文基礎?
錢鍾書中學上的是桃塢中學和輔仁中學,都是教會學校(寄宿),都有外教教學。其中桃塢中學(如今是蘇州第四中學)是當時上海聖約翰大學的附中(沒錯,錢鍾書進這所學校有他爸爸方面的因素),一般來講學生畢業可以直升聖約翰大學(教會大學)。桃塢中學的英文水平如何呢?1922年,上海滬江大學英文系舉辦過一次中學生英文考試,桃塢中學即名列第一。

桃塢中學的具體教學環境如下:

「學校以英文教學為特色,對學生英語學習有很高的要求,不僅要求學生達到能看能寫能講的水平,還特別注重發音的準確。學校規定,高中的英文課均由美籍教師教授,初中可由中國教師教授。教學要求均從嚴、從難著手。以20世紀30年代的英文課程為例:學生初一讀《泰西三十軼事》、《泰西五十軼事》,初二讀《天方夜譚》,初三讀《人類的故事》,高一讀《格列佛遊記》,高二讀《羅宮艷史》,高三讀《威克斐牧師傳》,高三另有選科讀《莎士比亞》著作。高中教學課本均用英文原版。以20世紀30年代的高中歷史課本為例:學生高一讀美國海斯滿編寫的《世界近代史》,高二讀海斯滿編寫的《世界中古上古史》,當時在國內許多大學歷史系一年級也以此為教材。教師授課均用英語,考試試卷也用英文命題。學生平時答問、答卷也均用英文。」
【大家軼事】錢鍾書與他就讀的桃塢中學

錢鍾書在中學時曾獲得過全校(不分年級全體參加)英文作文比賽第一名,有意思的是,有學者已經發現了錢鍾書中學時寫的作文(錢鍾書桃塢中學時的一篇英語作文),很短的一篇,有興趣可以自己閱讀。

此外,中學時的錢鍾書已經獨立地翻譯出了威爾斯《世界史綱》中的一章,他應該是第一個翻譯這本書的人,後來梁啟超指導他的兩個兒子(有梁思成)翻譯出了全書,而冰心、向達等人也翻譯過這本書,這都是後話。

當然我們也可以質疑,桃塢中學也許會在教綱上夸夸其談,其實際教學水平並沒有這麼好,因為錢鍾書的同學們並沒有像錢鍾書一樣有傳世之作,都默默無聞了。

這種可能性當然存在,當年桃塢中學裡面的學生大多非富即貴,並不都能達到錢鍾書的水平,原因很簡單,因為錢鍾書是特例。我們可以這樣解釋:民國官辦教育水平不高,但民間的一些家教、家學水平很好,這也能說明為什麼無錫錢家出了許多人才。

順著錢鍾書的家譜往上查,四五代人都是讀書人(具體家族譜系參見《無錫時期的錢基博與錢鍾書》),錢鍾書不是一躍而成為大家的,除去主觀努力,他祖上百餘年的積澱也給他提供了更高的起點。錢鍾書的父親懂英文但不夠精通,他父親晚年時說過:

「因為我祖上累代教書,所以家庭環境,適合於『求知』。」

這種求知慾造就了錢鍾書的自學本領(當然,他也有極高的天賦),因此個人覺得,錢鍾書的英語主要是靠自學的,因為他沒事就讀字典,這種堅持,今天又有幾個人能做到呢?(兩三年前回答過類似的問題:錢鍾書是如何學習外語的?他是通過什麼方法達到了精通N門外語的水平? - 語言),畢竟師父領進門,修行在個人。

C、錢鍾書在清華大學英文系時究竟在和誰學英語,又學到了什麼?

錢鍾書大學時期的神話故事一個不談,他人吹捧一個不引用,以下乾貨:

據(民國)國民政府教育部《二十一年度全國高等教育統計》,1932年,清華外國文學系在校生總數為74人,平均算下來,每個年級不足20人,是年錢鍾書在清華讀大三、大四。
(插句嘴:是年清華中文系全年級25人。)

錢鍾書的清華英語老師名單及學歷如下:

瑞恰慈(Ivor Armstrong Richards)(Orz···),新批評派創始人。
葉公超,劍橋大學文學碩士。
吳宓,哈佛大學文學碩士。
溫源寧,劍橋大學法學碩士。
溫德(Robert Winter),來清華前在芝加哥大學教書,瓦巴什學院畢業。

······(省略幾個ABC)
查找出來發現沒有博士,嗯,確實沒有,當年博士少,很多人碩士讀完繼續修學幾年卻沒攻學位。《清華周刊》(第35卷第11—12期)是一期「嚮導專號」,裡面有英文系轉學生的一篇文章,其中明確給出了這樣一個事實對比:
(其他大學)只念一本King Lear就算是莎士比亞的課程,清華一月內念完the return of the native。

如果在看這行字的你覺得當年清華英文系的課程目標有浮誇之風,那麼可以忽略下面這段內容:

「本系課程編製之目的,為使學生得能:(甲)成為博雅之士,(乙)了解西洋文明之精神,(丙)造就國內所需要之精通外國語文人才,(丁)創造今世之中國文學,(戊)溝通東西之精神思想而互為介紹傳布。」

(出處同樣是《清華周刊》(第35卷第11—12期))

清華英文系介紹完了之後,不妨看一下錢鍾書大二那年的成績單:

表中的「超」就是績點最高分(已封頂),至於「超+」。。算逆天分吧。

順便再提一點,錢鍾書當年去英國留學是考取公款的,可能很少有人知道,他清華畢業後之所以要去光華大學教兩年書,是因為當年庚款留學有個硬性條件,就是必須在相關領域工作兩年才能來考試。錢鍾書報考的是英國文學專業,在一九三五年所有赴英庚款生中考取了最高分(中美、中英庚款考試歷史上總平均分最高的也是錢鍾書的87.95),也不知與馮唐的托福滿分相比誰更厲害哈(╮(╯_╰)╭)。

錢鍾書在去南京參加庚款留學考試期間,還順道去了一趟國立中央大學,和三位中央大學的英文系教授談笑風生(亦可賽艇~),這三位教授是:

樓光來,哈佛大學文學碩士。
郭斌龢,哈佛大學文學碩士。
范存忠,哈佛大學哲學博士。

南大英文系的人都知道這三位的大名吧。

錢鍾書去牛津之後的事就不多說了,有質疑的可以讀一下他在牛津的寫的那篇學位論文,《錢鍾書英文文集》有收錄。

D、民國年間信息傳遞滯後,今天發達的互聯網是否能讓我們在英語學習上勝過錢鍾書?


這種觀點並不新鮮,回答也不唯一,可以視為「谷歌出現之後,錢鍾書學問的意義就下降了一半」的變種。

很多人並不了解當年的情況。事實上,當年清華每年都花很多錢征訂歐美地區的學術專著、主流雜誌期刊及報紙,學生如果想要買國外剛出版的某本著作,只要到清華圖書館登記一下,清華就直接向國外出版社拍電報下單了(具體參見《清華圖書館百年來的教學服務工作》等)。

當然,當年運輸速度太慢,征訂的東西往往一兩個月後才能到清華,但這並不影響文科類師生的學術研究與學習(當時來講),因為不用搶發論文。而資訊一類的報紙確實會遲一點,獲得的訊息也比今天少,因此,當年的書籍資料在傳遞速度、內容的廣度上遠落後於今天,但是,在內容的深度上就不一定了。如今國外的專業書籍在出版一兩個月後也無法保證被送到中國買家手中,因為過關會被扣,谷歌圖書版權保護也往往讓人看不到全文。所以,中國的許多科學家一直在呼籲,****要對科研網開一面(http://finance.ifeng.com/a/20160601/14449125_0.shtml)。

錢鍾書讀外國文學主要是從十四五世紀開始往近代讀的,讀到19世紀為止,這種沉下心來讀書,基本不會受到信息傳遞滯後的影響。其實20世紀的書他也讀,比如他在30年代《大公報》、《新月》上發表的一些書評(評論的書90%都絕版了,這些書都是出版後不久錢鍾書就讀完然後寫出書評的);再比如中國最早褒揚喬伊斯的就是錢鍾書了(參見錢鍾書《論不隔》及某學者的《喬伊斯在中國:1922—1999》)。

E、關於這三頁信
用三頁信來判斷錢鍾書的英語水平就好比用三場球來判斷梅西、C羅的足球水平一樣有失公允。畢竟,《錢鍾書手稿集·外文筆記》在2015年已經全部出版了,《手稿集》中收錄的48卷約35000頁筆記,是錢鍾書一生努力的結果。關於錢鍾書的外文水平(包括英語),國內外已經有很多大學教授開始逐步清點、研究這些外文筆記了,具體的成果過幾年會陸續出來(因為太龐大了,商務印書館出版這些筆記花去了十幾年的時間,還調用了各個語種的專家,這些在出版訪談里都可以找到),個人表示因為看不懂錢鍾書的字,所以沒能力插嘴。
莫芝宜佳、莫律祺:像一座萬里長橋——關於錢鍾書...

最後再插句嘴:錢鍾書其實也做過英文刊物的編輯的(編輯錢鍾書),他編輯過《清華周刊》(英文部主編),《天下月刊》(The T"ien Hsia Monthly),《圖書季刊》(Quarterly Bulletin of Chinese Bibliography),《書林季刊》(Philobiblon.A Quarterly Review of Chinese Publicatins),他在牛津大學讀書期間,還擔任了牛津大學出版的「東方哲學、宗教、藝術叢書」的特邀編輯;而在抗戰勝利以後,他還在中央圖書館擔任英文總纂。

這些履歷,也能說明一些問題。


F、最後+1
錢鍾書讀的是外文系,說到底他是一個學者,他的英文是為他的學術研究服務的,而非創作小說、寫散文,他對西方各國人文經典的研究才是櫝中之珠。個人認為錢鍾書是人不是神,缺點不足當然都有,我讚賞的是他一生不變的勤奮與努力,這種精神值得學習與傳承。

以上討論的都是錢鍾書在英語方面的經歷,我們還沒討論他在中文方面的呢╮(╯▽╰)╭。


你我身與名俱滅,不廢江河萬古流。

未經許可,禁止轉載知乎協議。


五峰山人按:這三封信大約寫於1971-72年,是寫給原中國社科院的林書武的,
—— 上海譯文出版社 bbs.yiwen.com.cn 譯文論壇交流區 [外國文學 BBS]

我現在認為這三篇書信,他就是故意寫的想讓人看不懂的

至於有人提到錢鍾書英文文集,在豆瓣上有個帖子里有人貼過其中的幾篇。正經的學術文章還比三封瑣碎的書信用詞要簡單不少。這個就很可疑了。


魔都最好的英語系畢業的來答。

我的英文水平遠遠不足以評論錢鍾書先生,容我拐個彎來表達:我們大一的第一堂專業課,老師就向我們推薦了《英漢大詞典》(當時還是第一版),也是聯合國翻譯們的常用工具書。翻開這本詞典的扉頁,有這麼一個題籤:


感覺這是錢老在知乎被黑得最慘的一次。

後面會有逐句分析,希望能幫助大家理解他為何牛逼,順便能從錢老身上學習到一些寫作技巧。

——插播一段爭議性最大的句子——

【The idea found from your version of Chairman』s statement is, to say the least, quite unjust.】

我認為之前有個答主( @Burris Ewell )把這個句子改成

My opinion on your translation of the chairman』s statement was quite unfair.

是非常錯誤的。他。完。全。沒。有。理。解。這。句。話。的。意。思。

他的理解是,錢鍾書對收信人翻譯的主席宣言,曾有很不公平的看法。

但是錢老原本的意思,我認為,應該是:你翻譯的主席宣言版本所表現的中心思想,我認為有失公允(這都是客氣的啊)。

主語是the idea
什麼idea?從你翻譯的主席宣言中得到(找到)的idea
怎麼?is quite unjust,這個idea有點失公允。
怎麼失公允?to say the least,都算是客氣的沒有在罵你。

to say the least
phrase of least

  1. 1.
    used as an understatement (implying the reality is more extreme, usually worse).
    "his performance was disappointing to say the least"
    synonyms:to put it mildly, putting it mildly, without any exaggeration, at the very least
    "his performance was disappointing to say the least"

整句翻譯過來就是:你翻譯的主席宣言版本所表現的中心思想,我認為至少是有失公允(實則更糟糕)。

有些答主說要加the。我認為不要,因為任何特定時間段中所對應的chairman是唯一的。這跟god前面不加the是一個道理。

比如Queen Of England就是正確語法,奧斯卡得獎電影King"s Speech,跟Chairman"s Statement是一樣的語法結構,沒有加the,等等。

——短答案——

寫得非常好,完全大師。根本不是凡夫俗子可以妄加評論的高度。

那些揪著小毛病吹毛求疵的人,自己的寫作水平都令人堪憂。

說錢老文字做作裝逼不通俗的,你們看過《神探夏洛克》嗎?沒事看看那個,你就知道英式的英文是多麼喜歡拽辭彙量了。是的,就是要從智商、辭彙、語言結構、考據等各方面碾壓凡夫俗子,這就是日不落帝國的優越感。錢老跟Sherlock比起來,親民多了好么?

——答主背景——

貼一段裝逼背景,只是為了說明答主這樣,對英文寫作比較自信的人,都覺得錢老是自己一輩子無法企及的高度,只能仰望試圖學習一二,知乎上一些語法辭彙都初級水平的人,怎麼好意思覺得自己比他牛逼啊(」゜ロ゜)」

英語算是半個母語,十歲移民新加坡(說新加坡只用singlish的我可以保證初中生辭彙量都能虐哭你),小學開始就是英文教學環境,我整個班都是學霸,出了小升初全國狀元。小學開始參加creative writing competition,commonwealth的,得獎。初中愛上English literature,於是高中主修,天天用英文分析文學作品,包括Shakespeare, Sylvia Plath, Hemingway, Coleridge, Edgar Allan Poe, Toni Morrison, Zola, 等,考試就是寫鑒賞。基本一直在與文學類打交道,一直都是文科生英文是生命(跟很多把英文當工具的理科生不太一樣),寫作的話英文比中文好很多。本科來到美帝,大學專業之一是西洋美術史就是因為寫作是強項不拿它來boost GPA有點蠢。因為懶和拖延症,寫文章特別快,4、50分鐘1000字的速度(嗯當代寫肯定賺翻了)。托福裸考滿分,一個半小時交卷。考托福純粹是為了應付FIT的入學要求,好像8、90分就可以了所以沒準備,並不是為了裝逼。

——逐句分析——

第一封信

  My Dear Shu-Wu(1),                 May 14

  Your letter gives me a joyful surprise(2). Your English is astonishingly good. This is not 「flannel」 nor 「butter」(3)but my sincere opinion (my hand upon my heart!). The idea found from your version of Chairman』s statement is, to say the least, quite unjust(4). Perhaps your hand is recovering some of its old cunning momentarily lost through long lack of practice(5). At any rate, it would be a pity-nay, a sin, a crime(6)-to let your(7) English get rusty become finally unserviceable.

  Yours in haste

  By a slip of pen, you wrote 「allocation」 instead of 「Collocation」. This is a mere peccadillo. Don』t let meticulousness about such trifles cramp your style.

【Your letter gives me a joyful surprise. Your English is astonishingly good.】

主語為your letter而非「我」,讓句子簡練了很多,也拿掉了不必要的被動語態。相信很多人更傾向於說【I am joyfully surprised by your letter.】這種級別的語法,其實是沒有美感的。

Surprising和Astonishing是近義詞,但astonishing比surprising更多了一層impressive的意思,也就是說不只是驚訝,而是有點令人驚喜。這句話給出了joyful surprise的原因,English,同時也讓your english而非我作主語,再次避免了被動語態

【The idea found from your version of Chairman』s statement is, to say the least, quite unjust.】

我認為之前有個答主( @Burris Ewell )把這個句子改成

My opinion on your translation of the chairman』s statement was quite unfair.

是非常錯誤的。他。完。全。沒。有。理。解。這。句。話。的。意。思。他的理解是,錢鍾書對收信人翻譯的主席宣言,曾有很不公平的看法。

但是錢老原本的意思,我認為,應該是:你翻譯的主席宣言版本所表現的中心思想,我認為有失公允(這都是客氣的啊)。

主語是the idea
什麼idea?從你翻譯的主席宣言中得到(找到)的idea
怎麼?is quite unjust,這個idea有點失公允。
怎麼失公允?to say the least,都算是客氣的沒有在罵你。

to say the least
phrase of least

  1. 1.
    used as an understatement (implying the reality is more extreme, usually worse).
    "his performance was disappointing to say the least"
    synonyms:to put it mildly, putting it mildly, without any exaggeration, at the very least
    "his performance was disappointing to say the least"

整句翻譯過來就是:你翻譯的主席宣言版本所表現的中心思想,我認為至少是有失公允(實則更糟糕)。

也就是說unjust或者unfair形容的,並不是錢老的看法,而是收信人翻譯想表達的中心思想。
也就是說unjust或者unfair形容的,並不是錢老的看法,而是收信人翻譯想表達的中心思想。
也就是說unjust或者unfair形容的,並不是錢老的看法,而是收信人翻譯想表達的中心思想。

而且他因為」found」看似過去式,就把這個句子改成了過去時態的「was」簡直是語法不過關。原句的語法明明是現在時的is,明明是錢老在吐槽對方的翻譯有點偏頗。所以才會有後面的一些他調侃對方英文是否生疏啊,是否剛剛recover啊,是否太狡黠啊之類的句子。

再就是unjust和unfair的運用,我認為unjust更精準,因為unfair比unjust更加主觀。錢老並不是在表達自己的看法,而是在告訴收信人,從一個客觀角度來說,聽者或者讀者,會覺得有失公允。錢老在這句話里,代表的不是自己,而是大家。

【Perhaps your hand is recovering some of its old cunning momentarily lost through long lack of practice.】

這句簡直不要太好。有誰能想「old cunning」也是可以「recover」的?整句話連個逗號都沒有,一氣呵成毫不費力。

【get rusty become finally unserviceable. 】

我認為這句的亮點是在「unserviceable」這個詞。想要表現生鏽並不新奇,但是用「unserviceable」表現不能隨心所欲為其所用,卻是沒有見過的。

【By a slip of pen, you wrote 「allocation」 instead of 「Collocation」. This is a mere peccadillo. Don』t let meticulousness about such trifles cramp your style. 】

說他寫得不好的,不查字典告訴我peccadillo是啥行不?這個詞真的比什麼「small mistake」之流有美感多了好么?而「cramp」這個動詞比「restrict」來得生動許多。

這整封信都很美,是因為用詞都非常精準。能用一個名詞表現的,絕對不會用一個短語。能用名詞主導的時候,絕不會用人稱代詞。這就避免了太多」我想」「你是」「他說」「你有」「我覺得」「我被」這樣非常沒有美感的表述,讓整封信充滿畫面感。有多少人跟我一樣,在看這封信的時候,腦中出現了很多意象,比如信紙、手、筆、生鏽等等?

文學是the economy of language。能用主動語態就不要用被動語態,能用一個動詞表達某個副詞+be動詞就用一個動詞,能用簡單動詞(非be have get等)不要用複雜辭彙,能用一個名詞表達形容詞+名詞就用一個名詞。如果認為錢老句子結構簡單,就覺得他英文不好,你要是去看海明威,還不得覺得他是小學生文筆?

第二封信

  My Dear Lin(1)                      May

  Excuse this belated reply to your very kind May Day greetings(2). Its almost literally「a day after the fair」. What with fixing the mosquito net, queuing for sweets at the co-op store, fetching distributing letters, the thousand and one odds and ends which eat away ones time, the red letter day was over before I know where I was(3). Well(4), here go my best wishes in which my wife joins. Your letter makes me ashamed. I feel guilty like a swindler who has won your「gratitude」without doing anything to earn it. Your characteristic generosity has led you to overestimate the aids to study I gave. Yes, vocabulary is important. Pedagogues used to distinguish a pupils active or (5) writing speaking vocabulary. As you know, the latter is far more extensive than the former. How to turn the supinely passive into the nimbly active—that』s the big problem(6). However, enough of shop talk. Tomorrow to the battle more power to your elbow!(7)

  Yours Sincerely,

【Excuse this belated reply to your very kind May Day greetings(2).】

Again, the use of "this belated reply" to take the author out of the picture. 沒有「我」。

【What with fixing the mosquito net, queuing for sweets at the co-op store, fetching distributing letters, the thousand and one odds and ends which eat away one』s time, the red letter day was over before I know where I was.】

來,那個說錢老語言結構簡單的站出來,我保證不打死你。我覺得語法上好像有點問題,比如說「fixing the mosquito net, queuing for sweets at the co-op store, fetching distributing letters, the thousand and one odds and ends」這幾個並列,我認為parallel structure可以更乾淨。但是我認為這種行雲流水式很隨性的寫作方式,反而很適合他想表現的情緒——他的時間被生活中的太多瑣碎一點點蠶食,導致他都忘記要寫信了。

【Your characteristic generosity has led you to overestimate the aids to study I gave.】

之前錢老說了,他覺得自己是個swindler,一點小把戲而已沒有實質幫助,是學生的「characteristic generosity」導致錢老的幫助被高估。我覺得characteristic這個形容詞,簡直太棒了,形容詞+名詞一塊兒夸人,情商高得不要不要的。

之所以用characteristic不用typical是因為typical有貶義。一句that"s so typical of you. 就能表現出嫌棄,一般搭配翻白眼表情。

【How to turn the supinely passive into the nimbly active—that』s the big problem.】

這句話太牛逼!那些說錢老英文不咋地的孩子們,你們真的應該好好讀一讀這封信,因為這封信教給了你們一個道理,那就是writing vocabulary牛逼沒啥用的,要能信手拈來才是自己的。能不能將「supinely passive」變成「nimbly active」才是關鍵所在。

我個人從來沒有見過有人,把能懂不能嫻熟使用的辭彙形容成「supinely passive」。Supinely的意思: (adv.)仰臥地;懶散地;怠慢地,用這個副詞來修飾「被動的」,簡直太有畫面感了。同樣的,nimbly一般也是用來形容身手和動作上的輕巧敏捷。這麼形容,一個「辭彙忍者」的形象躍然紙上。

也就是說,錢老不但做到了文字上的精準,也已經到了能用英文比喻、隱喻、玩文字遊戲和製造意象的等級。他自己就是一個「文字忍者」,你還要糾結他英文好不好嗎?

——統一回複評論區出現的自以為是——

我認為理解和分析是對作者最大的尊重。在此前提之上可以提出修改建議,但是不應該改變作者本身的意圖。對與錯本來就是主觀的,分析的本來就是錢老私人的書信,尊重他的表達才是批判的第一步。其次,我一直強調的是「美感」,也就是說,很多評論裡面簡化的說法,都不是錯的,只是沒有「美感」,不能上升到文學層次而已。懂了嗎?

如果你的世界裡文字只是工具不說,連其可以承載的美感都不能體會,還認為是文人的酸腐(要知道錢老本人是最反感酸腐類文人的,比如曹元朗蘇文紈之流),那該多無趣啊。Not everyone is a bore like you, you know that?

評論區裡面,我就不指名道姓了,有幾個人一直在試圖「修改」錢老的文字,我認為極其不禮貌。如果揪著小錯就要修改,對於文學類作者的創意妄加揣測而不是試圖理解,你去讀《A Clockwork Orange》的時候難道不會崩潰么?通篇都是作者自創的辭彙和表達方式啊。

而且使用永遠都是低級的,創新才是更高級的。也許對於某些理工科的同學來說,英文只是工具,你整那些我沒聽過的說法不過是為了裝逼。那麼對於我大文科的孩子來說,電腦也只是工具,你們自個兒搞Linux搞各種編程語言是為了什麼?除了裝逼還能幹什麼,反正我也用不著。

狹隘而不自知最可怕。科技需要創新來推動,文學藝術難道就不需要嗎?如果沒有創新和改變,你信不信你我現在都還在學莎翁時期的英文,thee thou thy滿天飛。

所以我認為首先是尊重,再是理解,然後再是創新。尊重錢老自己的表達方式,理解他的潛台詞,然後再想想你自己在同樣的情況下會怎麼說。妄圖提出「修改」方案,都是極其幼稚的做法。每個人有每個人的寫作習慣,你憑什麼要求一代文學巨匠按照你的行文方式寫呢?你只能說在同樣情況下你不會這麼寫,那是你個人的事,說實話我也不會這麼寫。但是不會這麼寫,不代表他這麼寫就錯了,更不代表他這麼寫就比你低級了。題目是分析他的英文水平,就算你寫得比他好,那也只能證明你英文水平也非常棒,並不能證明他不好。

何況,評論區里很多丟人現眼的孩子,講評的時候頭頭是道,一寫起英文就捉襟見肘。

半桶水才晃悠,在知識面前抱有謙遜敬畏之心沒有錯。越是智商高書讀得多的人,越不會覺得自己比身邊的人牛逼。

還有那些自以為提出很高明修改方案的人,卻連作者原本的意思都沒有明白,也不明白作者的語法結構,真是可笑。這還只是作者寫的私人信件呢,並不是為了發表而寫的。信手拈來,就已經比某些鍵盤俠絞盡腦汁查字典寫出來的要好多了。

最後說答主本人。答主從來沒有在中國學過英文,也沒有用中文學過英文(一直以來都是用的英英詞典),背單詞也都是靠例句,所以並不明白什麼叫中國式的英文,只知道英國和美式的表達方式。所以一堆試圖論證錢老中式英文的人可以消停了,答主在閱讀的時候並沒有感受到錢老的表述,與英國美國文學巨匠之間有什麼區別。反倒是評論區里一些拽英文的孩子們,英文真的特別彆扭,也許這就是他們自己所說的中式英文

英文不僅僅有語法,還有語感。捧著字典學英文,不如從英文文學作品中學習來得有用。背例句永遠比背單詞高效:如何學好英語法語德語西班牙語? - 水氷曱的回答 將單詞拼湊成句,不管看起來多牛逼,讀起來還是會拗口,讓人覺得是中式英文。

最後,聽說用英文回答會漲贊?Well, here it goes.

Judging by Zhihu users" current average level of "mastery" of the English language, I doubt anyone would be proficient enough to correct Mr. Qian"s writings; I doubt they even possess the ability to understand what he"s writing about.

Whoever posted this question apparently thinks lowly of Mr. Qian. He was hoping that this question could attract other people with similar sentiments. I don"t think he is truly interested in knowing about Mr. Qian. Therefore, our futile efforts in showing him the beauty of Mr. Qian"s language are bound to be dismissed with a grain of salt.

有關Henri Matisse畢業論文,節選了一段。

However, the general comfort and luxury enjoyed by most upper-middle class Parisians that shaped Matisse』s early styles soon proved to be short-lived, for World War I broke out not long after he published his first essay. He expressed an interest in military service, but was refused because of his age. This is evidence that even though he had only been an observer receiving signals from the society and translating them in his own artistic language, he still wanted to be an active part of the society, impacting the world in more ways than he used to. This helps to explain his sudden transformation to a less free-flowing and more structural style during the war years. For example, if we look at his Bathers by a River, we can see evidences of him trying to grapple with new ideals and styles not stated in his 「Notes of a Painter.」 He has also turned to darker and more somber palettes, unlike the bright primary colors of his earlier artworks. He himself talked about the painful struggle he underwent when he was trying to finish the piece, which helps to explain the deconstruction and simplification not seen in his earlier works and a style that is not quite consistent with his own statement. In fact, Matisse』s stylistic changes throughout his artistic career are usually attributed to the changes in environment at different stages of his life.10 Which is why to fully understand his Red Interior, it is important for us to look at socio-cultural changes before and after the Second World War.


Peter Halley, in 「Abstraction and Culture,」 talks about abstraction in art as 「one manifestation of a universal impulse towards the concept of abstraction that has dominated twentieth century thought.」11 To him, abstraction is an ideal that has restructured twentieth century lifestyle and mindsets; it is a general tendency towards pattern making and reduction of the specific into symbols and signs.12 If nineteenth century advances in machinery led to an increase in output and a general improvement in living standards, the twentieth century saw a boom in social sciences, such as psychology and economics, invented to give insights on how society behaves. On a macro level, individual behaviors are abstracted into observable patterns and analyzed. On a micro level, people are gaining more perspective about the order that governs the world, especially with modern physics and biology.13 Artists during this period did not necessarily understand all the new ideas and concepts, but society as a whole was very much influenced by these new ways of thinking. Matisse himself was no exception. His abstract and expressive artworks, initially more popular in the United States, where there were much more progressive and novel ideas, gained popularity among Parisians in 1945, because people started viewing them as symbols for 「a new independent France.」14 At the same time, his style also transitioned into one that was more flattened and geometric. He started to delineate objects using thick, defined outlines, delimiting the colors. In the Red Interior especially, the table is a flat, blue oval demarcated by dark blue contour. The table, instead of bearing any specific characteristic, is reduced to a blue, round shape devoid of ornamentation or details. Instead of a realistic representation, it has been distilled into an idea, a notion, and a concept, perhaps consistent with the post-war interest in signs and information theory.

唉,好累好心煩。。。


點進題目,看到你們都在批評那個什麼英文編輯 @Burris Ewell,可是拉到最後也沒看到 @Burris Ewell 的答案

話說回來,關於英文水平,上面已經回答得很多了,我就補充一點關於風格:

有人說這是什麼十八九世紀英文古典作家的風格,英語隨著自身發展演化,現在要求更加流暢直白,什麼什麼的,這也沒錯。
但是,錢老這麼寫,最主要的還是因為他這人本身就是這種風格好嗎!
他的中文就是喜歡玩弄文字遊戲、各種戲謔暗喻言外之意、拐著彎抹著角的諷刺挖苦幽默的好不好!
錢老別的書暫且不論,難道《圍城》你們都沒看過嗎。翻開第一頁,隨便摘兩段:

照例每年夏天有一批中國留學生學成回國。這船上也有十來個人。大多數是職業尚無著落的青年,趕在暑假初回中國,可以從容找事。那些不愁沒事的學生,要到秋涼才慢慢地肯動身回國。船上這幾個,有在法國留學的,有在英國、德國、比國等讀書,到巴黎去增長夜生活經驗,因此也坐法國船的。他們天涯相遇,一見如故,談起外患內亂的祖國,都恨不得立刻就回去為它服務。船走得這樣慢,大家一片鄉心,正愁無處寄託,不知哪裡忽來了兩副麻將牌。麻將當然是國技,又聽說在美國風行;打牌不但有故鄉風味,並且適合世界潮流。妙得很,人數可湊成兩桌而有餘,所以除掉吃飯睡覺以外,他們成天賭錢消遣。

她只穿緋霞色抹胸,海藍色貼肉短褲,漏空白皮鞋裡露出塗紅的指甲。在熱帶熱天,也許這是最合理的裝束,船上有一兩個外國女人就這樣打扮。可是蘇小姐認為鮑小姐赤身露體,傷害及中國國體。那些男學生看得心頭起火,口角流水,背著鮑小姐說笑個不了。有人叫她「熟食鋪子」(charcuterie),因為只有熟食店會把那許多顏色暖熱的肉公開陳列;又有人叫她「真理」,因為據說「真理是赤裸裸的」。鮑小姐並未一絲不掛,所以他們修正為「局部的真理」。

錢老他就是這種文風好不好!

就連題目里的序言,原文也是中文……沒錯,那就是《圍城》的序……

  在這本書里,我想寫現代中國某一部分社會、某一類人物。寫這類人,我沒忘記他們是人類,只是人類,具有無毛兩足動物的基本根性。角色當然是虛構的,但是有考據癖的人也當然不肯錯過索隱的機會、放棄附會的權利的。
  這本書整整寫了兩年。兩年里憂世傷生,屢想中止。由於楊絳女士不斷的督促,替我擋了許多事,省出時間來,得以錙銖積累地寫完。照例這本書該獻給她。不過,近來覺得獻書也像「致身於國」、「還政於民」等等佳話,只是語言幻成的空花泡影,名說交付出去,其實只彷佛魔術家玩的飛刀,放手而並沒有脫手。隨你怎樣把作品奉獻給人,作品總是作者自己的。大不了一本書,還不值得這樣精巧地不老實,因此罷了。


這些人難道沒看過18,19世紀的英美名著嗎。。。


我就想說,unjust 和 idea 搭配,特指的是該觀點沒有足夠客觀證據支撐。和片語 do justice to someone/something, also do someone/something justice 同理to be accurate or fair by representing someone or something as that person or thing truly is.

Burris 小姐誤讀成道德譴責,根本沒把 just 的意思吃透。

幹嘛還要死磕是不是同義詞,當然不是。和表示觀點的詞搭配,unfair 沒有這層意思。指出某觀點站不住腳,和譴責作者意圖之間沒有等號。


錢鍾書的英文是得到過已故英語學界泰斗陸谷孫教授的認可和推崇的。陸老原話如下:

「徐老夫子知我心儀錢師之誠,某日召去,從櫥中取出兩本書,一本題為Americanisms Briticisms with Other Essays on Other ISMs (Brander Matthews著,1892年);另一本Essays about Men, Women, and Books  (Augustine Birrell著,1894年),說是兩書原為錢楊所藏,「文革」中不知怎的,流失滬上,他見了忙不迭「搶救」買回,囑我:「拿回去好好讀讀,特別注意頁邊旁註。」應當說,這是我由衷欽羨錢、楊二位先生的開始:只見頁邊以飄逸的筆跡,用漢、英、西、德、意、法(還有拉丁)文批註連連,很多是我看不懂的,對於能看懂的那部分,不是翕然景從,就是為注家的閎大廣博心折。」

這相當於什麼概念呢?陸老在英語學界差不多相當於中神通王重陽的角色。然後王重陽跟你說「我年輕時心儀某某某」…… 那這個某某某的武功得高到什麼程度? 順便說一件逸事:陸老其實原本是打算拜在錢師門下學習的,後來錢師認為當時的陸老「資質尚淺」,此事才未成。

陸老當然不會無聊到去評論一篇preface英文如何。根據我對他了解,如果他知道哪個後生小輩敢這麼做一定會斥之為大不敬。

*************************************

知乎上總是有些人對自己的英語蜜汁自信,最誇張的甚至質疑人家純種美國人的英語。

對這種人最好的方法就是讓他們自己來一段完整的英語。寫十行英語的時政評論,沒有任何語法錯誤,用對全部冠詞用法就行。如果自己英語寫作能力都欠奉,不知道哪來的蜜汁自信去評價別人的英文寫作如何?

再說得明確點:知乎上所有人,你們根本沒資格指摘錢鍾書的英文,根本沒資格。就像一個剛過鋼琴十級甚至連六級都沒過的人指摘職業鋼琴家的琴技一樣,貽笑大方。狂妄自大的蚍蜉。


P.S. 我寫答案時候壓根沒看那什麼英文編輯的回答,然後就看見公子小白的答案。。。哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈就知道。一篇英文寫作里如果到處是冠詞使用不當,可以說是最容易暴露其來自非母語作者了。另外大家不用看到什麼英語編輯就忙著膜拜,我們當時專業里只有一個吊車尾的同學去當了福州路某外文出版社的編輯,大家可想而知。


知乎上居然有人提問這種愚蠢問題?
真讓我大(da) 開(die) 眼(yan) 界(jing)!
我誰都不黑,只黑我自己。
以我目前的英文水平,後半輩子放棄碼代碼,潛心繼續苦學英文直到離世。
恐怕也達不到錢老水平的百分之一。
所以真心慚愧,給知乎er們的平均英文水平拖了後腿。。。(微笑臉)

某些知乎er在一些英文考試中取得了高分 或者在國外接受過幾年教育 就開始自我膨脹了,就敢誇海口評價錢老這樣的名師大家。 簡直可笑!醒醒吧!

錢老被你們這群知識分子給黑了,你們準備啥時候開黑林語堂呢?

總結一下吧:@Burris Ewell BE大漢真是愈挫愈勇啊!臉都打出血了。還在這裡垂死掙扎 (手動把黑錢老的助攻回答全都贊了一遍) 唉。。。 知乎讓我發現了更大的世界!


我覺得題主貼的文章都是鍾書先生與人的書信,不能因為這些來評斷先生的英文造詣,想一下我們平常的書信往來用語也都很簡單不會過多的炫技。我在十五言看過一個留學生翻看了先生當年在國外的畢業論文,題主參看一下這篇相信能對先生的水平有全面的了解http://www.15yan.com/story/4jzucXIOEND/?mType=Group


評價英語水平本來就是很難的事情。首先錢鍾書寫的英文作品很多,很可能成百上千。沒看完大多數之前怎麼評價?難道可以僅憑看了其中一點點就開始評價?評價某作品的英語水平還比較可行。

其次,一個大學沒畢業的倫敦土著寫的英語,和一個捷克文學大師寫的英語作品,哪個好?這就涉及到一個問題:是不是像母語者就好?如果是的話,像哪種母語者算好?英語人口分布太廣,愛爾蘭人的用法和加州人的用法哪個好?十九世紀末的澳大利亞大學生和二十世紀末的紐約時報編輯,哪個好?

當英語水平缺乏客觀的量化標準的時候,爭論英語水平有意義嗎?除了公認的好與公認的壞這種極端情況,其他的時候是見仁見智的。要麼錢鍾書是極端情況,要麼你評論錢鍾書也就是一家之言,而且是可以忽略的那種。要知道即便是受過良好文學教育的母語者,互相之間對文字的水平也有很大分歧。不信你去找隨便一個英美文學雜誌或報刊的退稿意見和作者反駁,狗腦子都能罵出來,然而在很多英語非母語的人眼裡看來寫的也許都挺不錯的。很多答主在面對一個非自己母語的語言的時候,少了點謙虛。

-----------更新--------------
這個話題居然還能延燒到現在。對於這種在別人私人信件里雞蛋挑骨頭找語法錯誤來宣稱自己英語比別人好的人。好吧,讓我們來做個盲測。隨便找了三個信件片段:
A.

......I must stick to leaving N.C.F. Committee. I can"t be just a perfunctory member; I know they will do things I shall disagree with, and I would rather resign without disagreement. If I stay on, I shall not be able to get absorbed in philosophy. If Salter writes to suggest reconsidering, I will write him a long letter. How amusing to think of old Volatire so bacchanalian! When those things come from Marlow, you can put the Persian bowl on its ebony stand in the place where Voltaire is now. ......

B.

......
We have a very happy existence, reading, writing, and talking endlessly. Lady Clifton lent us In the Mountains which we read with great delight - she wasn"t sure who it was by, but I was. I gave her a rude message to you, because you hadn"t written to me, and when I got home, there was your letter.
We shall be home the end of September, unless war between Japan and U.S. delays us. Best of love, dear XXX, and thanks for all the lovely things you say -
Yours affectionately,
XXX XXX

C.

......I do not know what the salary would be if I got the job. Do you? I do not want people to get the impression that I am mercenary. But as you know the first many hundred pounds of what I earn have to be paid to others, so that at present I have to live on my capital, which is not large enough to last long. When it is finished, there will not only be nothing for me and Peter to live on, but no means of educating the coming child. This prospect is unbearable. I would rather people know me poor than thought me mercenary. ......

歡迎評論以上幾段文字相應作者的英文水平。


本人不才,也沒時間細讀,但看到@Burris Ewell的答案里寫到"英語中名詞前必須加冠詞"一句,我驚呆了,感覺整個人都不好了,也沒有膽量再讀下去了。

敢問@Burris Ewell女士,您是如何看待下述英文表述的?

... in July
... by bus
... play football
.
.
.
說好的名詞前面"必須"加冠詞的呢?

不知道您參與編輯的The Beijinger水準如何,讀者都是些什麼人,但聽聞不止一位英美朋友提到國內的英文報刊大多各種錯誤百出,簡直沒法讀。想必其中定有您的一份功勞。

……………………………………………………
就是這樣了。


以你連Author"s Preface是從中文翻譯過來的都看不出來的水平,
你說什麼,反過來都是對的。

PS
最近這個帖子肯定因為某個莫名其妙的關注又火了。
說實話不知道一堆人在瞎說什麼,連哪個是翻譯,哪個是出自本人手筆都弄不清。
幾封信也說明不了大問題,真有興趣回答問題的為什麼不多讀一點錢鍾書的英文?
我敢說那位Beijinger的翻譯連錢的英文都讀不懂——這不丟人,因為他的中文你也讀不懂。


PS2:好幾個已經在讀了錢鍾書三封英文信以後宣稱英文比錢鍾書好了。假以時日,肯定還會更多,貴乎真是卧虎藏龍。

PS3:《錢鍾書英文文集》很容易買到,貼這本書里的第一篇,請大神們分析一下語病。作於1931年,錢鍾書21歲時。

Pragmatism and Potterism

Pragmatism has met with much hostile criticism. James himself has replied to some of the critics like Russell, Pratt and Bradley in "The Meaning of Truth" . The rest like Taylor, Lovejoy, Gardiner, Bakewell, Creighton, Hibben, Parodi, Salter, Carus, Laland, Mentre, McTaggart, G. E. Moore, Schintz, etc., he does not " pretend to consider." Since not only James, but almost all Pragmatists don"t "pretend to consider" their critics, no doubt Pragmatism has profited little by criticism,1 e.g., as late as 1929, Professor Dewey, the most profound and logical of Pragmatists, in his Gifford Lectures "The Quest for Certainty", still uses the word "practice" as ambiguously as of yore to denote at one time activity in general and at other times blind in contradistinction to intelligent action. The purpose of this paper, however, is not to pass any serious criticism upon Pragmatism, which indeed is superfluous, but to point out the resemblance which has struck upon me between this popular philosophy and a sort of mentality satirised in a popular novel.
  As a philosophy, Pragmatism bears the stamp of American nationality throughout. It is a philosophy par excellence of capitalism and democracy, two formative agencies of modern age in general and modern America in particular.2 There is as much " egotism" in Pragmatism as Santayana finds in German philosophy. But the relation between this " American philosophy" and "American politics" is not my concern here. What is noteworthy is the Pragmatist"s emphasis on activity and utility. This is quite in the line of the Baconian tradition. Ever since Cowley, critics have regarded Bacon as the prophet of the coming of the modern age. But Bacon is no mere seer of the promised Land , nay, he discovers it. The problem of philosophy in the classical antiquity and the middle ages is whether man with his natural faculties can have a true (in the Non-pragmatic sense)knowledge of the reality (whatever it may mean ). Any attempt on those old philosophers" part to solve this problem is confronted with the same difficulties as the modern theory of correspondence. Thus Plato, with his NOUS to save knowledge from the Heraclitean flux, sees no way out as to the problem of error in "Thaetetus". Then Bacon comes with his dictum "Scientia est potentia". The old knot is not untied, but simply cut. Hereafter we need not ask whether our natural faculties can truly grasp the reality, but whether we can make use of such knowledge as acquired through our natural faculties, no matter it is true ( in the Non-pragmatic sense) or not. Knowledge is instrumental, it is simply a means to an end. There is perhaps more insight in Macaulay"s estimate of Bacon than has been generally admitted. No doubt Professor Dewey would trace pragmatism to Bacon in "Reconstruction in philosophy" rather than to Protagoras. The ethics of such a philosophy is of course naturalistic. Since every idea is a means to an end, there can be no autonomy of values. Dr. G. E. Moore, in a fashion of giving a dog bad name and then hanging him, has called this heteronomy a naturalistic fallacy in "Principia Ethica" .3
  Anxious to do justice to the " alogical "4 element in consciousness, Pragmatists have a rooted antipathy towards logic; and by beautiful ironies of logic, they are often committed to self-contradiction. But then, what do Pragmatists care? They can "reform" logic to suit their book. James, Dr. Schiller tells us, "avowedly entertained too low an opinion of (intellectualist) logic5 to trouble to correct it"6 . It is therefore left to Professor Dewey and Dr. Schiller to carry out the " reformation". Of these two philosophers" works on logic, Dr. Schiller"s "Formal Logic " seems to me the most convincing and amusing. In that book, he has tried to beat, so to speak, formal logic with its own staff, and to show that formal logic is, if a little play on words after Dr. Schiller"s fashion be allowed, formally logical without being logically formal. Dr. Schiller tells us that he is showing up the Aristotelian logic, " the most profitable of Greek Speculations only next to Euclid". Curiously enough, those doctrines stated as Aristotelian and then furiously taken to task by Dr. Schiller can be found not in the Stagirite"s "Organon", but in the works of Dr. Schiller"s fellow countrymen who, like Dr. Schiller, are critics of Aristotle; e.g. Sir W. Hamilton"s "Lectures". How far this confusion arises from Dr. Schiller"s patriotic fallacy, I do not know. As we are not to "follow reason wherever it leads us", we are told to follow volition and interest wherever they lead us. Here the Pragmatist plays himself into his enemy"s hands; for I think the will-to-believe theory does best to bring to light the latent ambiguity in the Pragmatist"s use of the word "work". A belief is true because it "works"; but the "working" of a belief which is the outcome of our will-to-believe, does not mean its verification or verifiability, but means the satisfaction or the encouragement derived from that belief. Dr. Schiller in his "Humanism" illustrates the working of the will-to-believe in our choosing between the two following arguments:
  1. The world is so bad that there must be a better.
  2. The world is so bad that there can not be a better. According to Dr. Schiller, the second argument alone is strictly logical, yet we prefer the first because it is more desirable. Whether we actually choose like this, I doubt; some people would surely think with Bradley that "when all is bad it must be good to know the worst". But, you see, Pragmatists can not look brute facts fairly in the face!
  Pragmatism is a philosophy soi-disant scientific. Like Science it lays stress upon experiment and utility. This affinity is but skin-deep . Science, though not strictly logical,7 is ethically neutral: it can be used as well as abused. Besides its necessary assumptions, science (as well as the law of Parcimony in logic) forbids us will to believe anything on trust.8 Even Professor Dewey admits that the " Character or personal equation is negligible in scientific judgments. Thus to believe an idea scientifically is not necessarily to believe it pragmatically; nor is scientific utility always equivalent to pragmatic desirability. For a truly scientific philosophy one must go to such "philosophical Puritanism"9 as advocated by Russell and not to the tender-hearted philosophy of James, Dewey, and Schiller.10 Perhaps James is aware of this fact; and Professor Schintz"s discovery of the substitution of Bergson for Poincare in "The Pluralistic Universe" is as interesting as Butler"s discovery of "the excised "my" s"" in "The Origin of Species .
  Now Pragmatism with its American stamp, its instrumentalism, its tender-heartedness and its unscientific character, bears a striking resemblance to what Miss Rose Macaulay describes as "Potterism". A few quotations from that brilliant satire will suffice to prove my point: "Potterism was mainly an Anglo-Saxon disease. Worst of all in America, the great home of commerce, success, and the booming of the second-rate. ... No good scientist can conceivably be a Potterite, because he is concerned with truth. Potterism is all for short and easy cuts and showy results. . . . The very essence of Potterism is going for things for what they"ll bring you, what they lead to, instead of for the thing in itself. . . . Their attitude towards truth was typical: Clare wouldn"t see it; Jane saw it perfectly clearly and would reject it without hesitation if it suited her book , etc. , etc. All these can be said with equal appropriateness of Pragmatism: and Pragmatism smells strongly of Potterism. Is the Pragmatic theory of knowledge au fond a philosophical expression and justification of the Potterite Mentality? Answer the question who list, I"ll not venture to do it.
  Far be it from me to disparage either Pragmatism or Potterism. After all, to call Pragmatism Potterite or Potterism Pragmatic is not criticism—it is mere description.
NOTES
  1. with the exception of A. W. Moore, but Moore himself does not make any positive contribution to Pragmatism.
  2. Cf. especially G. P. Adams" "Idealism and the Modern Age", and A. Schintz"s "Anti-pragmatism", Vol II.
  3. It must not be supposed that the naturalistic ethics deserves this bad name" . For a luminous criticism of the "hypostatic ethics" of Moore and Russel, see Santayana"s "The Winds of Doctrine", IV. For recent discussions, see D. C. Williams" "The Definition of Yellow and of Good" (Journal of Philosophy, Vol. XXVII, pp. 515-527) and A. Edel"s "Further on Good and Its Structure" (Ibid. pp. 701-708).
  4. See E. B. Bax"s "The real, the rational, and the alogical" Chap. VII. But the attempt to reduce logic of Psychologic can be found as early as in Mill"s "Logic .
  5. What Dr. Schiller means exactly by "intellectualist logic" is not quite clear. Dr. Schiller has "troubled" himself to "correct" the Aristotelian logic. And nowhere is the criticism of Aristotelian logic so sagacious as in the "intellectualist logic" of Bosanquet. Indeed Dr. Schiller owes a good deal of his criticism to Bosanquet, though he does not care to acknowledge it.
  6. "Journal of Philosophical Studies", Vol. VI, No. 21, p.21.
  7. See especially Earl Balfour"s "The defense of philosophic doubt" Chap. XII, and the first part of his essay on Bergson"s Creative Evolution in
  Essays Speculative and Political .
  8. Cf. Laplace"s famous retort to Napoleon in the formal presentation of his "Mechanique Celeste".
  9. The term is Muirhead"s. See "what is philosophy, anyway?" in "The Use of Philosophy".
  10. For the sharp antithesis between the scientific philosophy of Russell and
  the scientific philosophy of Dewey, see R. F. A. Hoernle"s "The idol of
  Scientific Method in Philosophy " in " Studies in Contemporary Metaphysics".


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